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49. El-Marmalade[GM] vs curtains (..Nd5 Tarrasch)*** [30:33] 
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Knight

Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:09 pm
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Sorry I couldn't respond sooner Lars,

Here is a typical example of the Greek Bishop sacrifice in action, a motif that tends to crop up quite often in French defence games:

Borg,G - Veer,W [C11]
Thessaloniki ol (Men) Thessaloniki (7), 25.11.1984

1.e4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.d4 c5 6.dxc5 Nc6 7.Bf4 Bxc5 8.Bd3 a6 9.0-0 0-0 10.Bxh7+

Image

Kxh7 11.Ng5+ Kg6 12.Qd3+ f5 13.Qg3 Qb6 14.Nxe6+ Kf7 15.Nxd5 Qa5 16.Ndc7 Rg8 17.Qg5 g6 18.Qh4 Bf8 19.Qh7+ Bg7 20.Ng5+ Ke7 21.Qxg8 1-0

I tried to do a fen diagram for you, but for some reason it didn't work.

Ohh well, I hope you found the game instuctive anyway.

Toppy 8)

Postscript: Hooray! I finally figured out how to post a fen diagram after much trial and error. Sort of :D

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Last edited by Toppy on Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:50 pm
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I got a kick out of that video. Curtains has the same frustrations I do, only at a higher level. :)


Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:07 pm
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King

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:31 am
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I watched this game again now and I feel that 20. Rxd4 right away would not that be better than what actually happened in the game?

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Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:01 pm
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Maple Stevens wrote:
I watched this game again now and I feel that 20. Rxd4 right away would not that be better than what actually happened in the game?


cant he go Nxd4 and then Ne2 check?


Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:36 pm
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Knight

Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:09 pm
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katar wrote:
Toppy, in order to stalk a thread more efficiently,, you can click "Watch this topic for replies" and receive an email after every post to the thread.

***

I am not strong enough chesswise to opine on the proper role of in/decisiveness. However, i appreciate that curtains' vids give a window to the intuition of a much stronger player.


Turns out it was the Junk Mail filter after all, all's well now :thumright:

Toppy 8)

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Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:57 pm
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Pawn

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:18 am
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@Toppy
Instructive indeed, the Bxh7 sac in pure form. Still the "greek bishop sacrifice" really puzzles me, as I never heard that name before. Is it greek sacrifice as in "greek gift" ? Who coined it ?

I figure it has nothing to do with this game being played in the greek town of Thessaloniki :wink:


Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:08 pm
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King

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:31 am
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curtains wrote:
Maple Stevens wrote:
I watched this game again now and I feel that 20. Rxd4 right away would not that be better than what actually happened in the game?


cant he go Nxd4 and then Ne2 check?



Well actually exd4 is stronger in that line so nvm. It all looks so forced to me when I looked at it again and I hate that.
(Just analyzed the position with Fritz and Fritz made the same moves as you did in the actual game.)


Beh

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Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:17 pm
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Knight
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:51 pm
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Toppy wrote:
Sorry I couldn't respond sooner Lars,

Here is a typical example of the Greek Bishop sacrifice in action, a motif that tends to crop up quite often in French defence games:

Borg,G - Veer,W [C11]
Thessaloniki ol (Men) Thessaloniki (7), 25.11.1984

1.e4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.d4 c5 6.dxc5 Nc6 7.Bf4 Bxc5 8.Bd3 a6 9.0-0 0-0 10.Bxh7+ Kxh7 11.Ng5+ Kg6 12.Qd3+ f5 13.Qg3 Qb6 14.Nxe6+ Kf7 15.Nxd5 Qa5 16.Ndc7 Rg8 17.Qg5 g6 18.Qh4 Bf8 19.Qh7+ Bg7 20.Ng5+ Ke7 21.Qxg8 1-0

I tried to do a fen diagram for you, but for some reason it didn't work.

Ohh well, I hope you found the game instuctive anyway.

Toppy 8)


Hi Toppy,

nice Game. Actually I skimmed over quite a lot of master games containing this kind of bishop sacrifice, but most of them ended either with a quick checkmate or resign ( but I also remember a game between Tschigorin [ or was it Zukertort, don't know anymore ... damn, can't remember .... this kills me ... AAAARRGHHH :twisted: :wink: :D ] and Steinitz, where the bishop sac failed and Steinitz won the endgame easily). Here in this example white has to work quite a bit until the end.
Actually I didn't associate the term "greek gift" with those sacrifices. At first I thought it was another word for the trojan horse ( Ng5, hxg5, hxg5 with a rook-file attack against the castled King) , which was historically also a kind of greek gift :-) , but then i found the entry in wikipedia. In german this sac has no particular name, i believe.

Merry Christmas to you all.


Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:00 pm
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Knight

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:01 pm
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salto.mattale wrote:
@Toppy
Instructive indeed, the Bxh7 sac in pure form. Still the "greek bishop sacrifice" really puzzles me, as I never heard that name before. Is it greek sacrifice as in "greek gift" ? Who coined it ?

I figure it has nothing to do with this game being played in the greek town of Thessaloniki :wink:


Yes it is sometimes called the "Greek gift" sacrifice and of course the origin of that term can be traced back to the Trojan horse. "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts" is a well known proverb over here (not neccesarily used about greeks so not as racist as it sounds).

No idea who coined it - you'd think it would be more appropriate for a knight sac.

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Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:54 pm
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King

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Post Re: 49. El-Marmalade[GM] vs curtains (..Nd5 Tarrasch)*** [30:33]
entertaining, funny & instructive!


Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:17 am
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King

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Post Re: 49. El-Marmalade[GM] vs curtains (..Nd5 Tarrasch)*** [30
I must like the videos, because I'm watching them all the time. Nice work!


Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:04 pm
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Rook
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Post Re: 49. El-Marmalade[GM] vs curtains (..Nd5 Tarrasch)*** [30
"He's just some random guy...he's not very good"

lol Greg this guy beat Kasparov 3 times! ok garry was a kid at the time but still :)


Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:22 pm
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