1 mistake and game is over

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1 mistake and game is over

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gigenieks

Knight

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:14 am
Posts: 34
Rating: 1938
Rating Class: Class A (1800-2000)

1 mistake and game is over

Okey guys.
I annotated this game. It was played on FICS, time control 30min +10sec.

Enjoy.
Please comment. :p

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Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:21 pm

Pobble

King

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 1384
Rating: 2200
Rating Class: National Master

Re: 1 mistake and game is over

My general impressions.

The opening by black has been played in countless games by GM John Shaw. John tends to develop a bit more quick than your opponent. He even played like this against me once in some a IM norm tourny. The opening is also akin to the ' Strong point Defence ', 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Qe7 which was popular in Germany about 20 years ago. Both these lines are really just Philidor defences in other forms. Result of the opening was you got a lot of space and time at the cost of the two bishops. I think your play was a bit strange after the opening. You needed to up the pace quick to exploit blacks cramp and bad king position.

Early middlegame you started pushing pawns - a lot of pawns. You might have been ok with this slow play but only if you aimed to create pawn chains. Two bishops love open positions ( knights prefer blocked positions ). For open positions you need pawn exchanges. A lot of pawn moves can just lead to an open position! Result - you played into blacks hands. Move 22.Qxe5 Qxe5 23.Nxe5 Bf6 and unless I'm missing something big, the game is over. Even so, after 24...Nd7 white is in a lot of trouble. Simply two bishops are very strong in such positions. Your pieces are also in need of redeploy. I agree with you, his 24..Bh5 was a terrible move.

You were obviously in time trouble late on.

Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:25 pm

gigenieks

Knight

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:14 am
Posts: 34
Rating: 1938
Rating Class: Class A (1800-2000)

Re: 1 mistake and game is over


	Pobble wrote: The opening by black has been played in countless games by GM John Shaw.

I have no interest to study this opening.


	Quote: 1. I think your play was a bit strange after the opening. 2. You needed to up the pace quick to exploit blacks cramp and bad king position.

1. "Strange"? What do you mean exactly? By the way, I don't know this opening moves I don't even know opening name after 1.e4 e5 2.f4 d6 etc

I just played that game by some basic chess 'rules'

2. Can you give me ~ how. I know (after I analysed game) I should have opened game faster OR attacked to his King. But how exactly? What would be the plan? :arrow:


	Quote: Early middlegame you started pushing pawns - a lot of pawns. You might have been ok with this slow play but only if you aimed to create pawn chains.

Can you explain this in more detail? I don't understand what is your point. :wink:


	Quote: Result - you played into blacks hands.

I don't think black even know his plan, he played this game like it was blitz (used very little time)


	Quote: Move 22.Qxe5 Qxe5 23.Nxe5 Bf6 and unless I'm missing something big, the game is over. Even so, after 24...Nd7 white is in a lot of trouble.

I think its a little tricky. White can respond 24.Rxf6 gxf6 25.Ng4 (hitting 2 pawns (f6 & h6) also b7 is under attack, and Knight on b8 as well as Rook on a8 isn't that great (white has some time for getting even better position).
What do you think?

Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:15 pm

Pobble

King

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 1384
Rating: 2200
Rating Class: National Master

Re: 1 mistake and game is over

If you read what I wrote... Your questions suggest I said other things - instead try just taking what I write on face value please. Kill me for it, but kill me for the right reasons

Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:31 pm

gigenieks

Knight

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:14 am
Posts: 34
Rating: 1938
Rating Class: Class A (1800-2000)

Re: 1 mistake and game is over

I'm not sure I understand you...

Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:00 am

Pobble

King

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 1384
Rating: 2200
Rating Class: National Master

Re: 1 mistake and game is over


	Quote: 2. Can you give me ~ how. I know (after I analysed game) I should have opened game faster OR attacked to his King. But how exactly? What would be the plan?

By creating threats. 10.Be3 would be a good start - a real attacking move. You try to follow up with such moves as much as you can, giving black no chance to develop. Then open the centre with pawn exchanges or even a sacrifice - get at the king!


	Quote: I don't think black even know his plan, he played this game like it was blitz (used very little time)

I did not indicate this, just like some others.

Blacks only aim in the game was to finish his opening - which you let him do. Q - when did your opening end? When did blacks?

Imagine a sword fight. Black sticks the hilt in the sand with the blade pointing up. He walks away intent on working out a method to tie his shoe laces. You start dancing around - swing - swing, upper cut, slice, around and around - then you throw yourself into the air and come down hard impaling yourself on his static sword. The sword was his two bishops! Black did nothing for them, but it was enough.

Again, please read what I wrote. Please do not add your own narrative to my words and change their meaning. I find such things insulting. I will help you if I can, just don't tell me what I mean by my own words and we will get on great.

Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:14 am

zeitnotakrobat

Rook

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:10 am
Posts: 208
Location: Southern Germany
Rating: 2249
Rating Class: National Master

Re: 1 mistake and game is over

Besides many mistakes and inaccuracies in the game, your analysis is quite sloppy at some points.

A player with a rating above 1800 playing the kings gambit MUST know what happens if you take fxe5 on move 3, it's so obviously lost.
You had your chances in this game, but in your analysis I miss any useful comment after black's fatal 32 Kh8. White has at least two ways to win on the spot.

On move 5 the best is 0-0, this is the most forcing.
I don't like 6Qb3 and especially 11Qc2, should be 11Qd1, but this can be improved by Pobble's suggestion 10Be3!
After 12 Nh4 Rg8 or even after the better 12b4 Na6 13Nh4 white gets huge advantage.
What about 22Qxe5 Qb6+? Seems like black gets the advantage then.

Try to work out Pobble's and my suggestions!

_________________
Veni, vidi, fleri!

Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:55 pm

gigenieks

Knight

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:14 am
Posts: 34
Rating: 1938
Rating Class: Class A (1800-2000)

Re: 1 mistake and game is over


	Pobble wrote: By creating threats. 10.Be3 would be a good start - a real attacking move. You try to follow up with such moves as much as you can, giving black no chance to develop. Then open the centre with pawn exchanges or even a sacrifice - get at the king!

OK now we are getting somewhere - 10.Be3 with idea to prevent Nc5 (which frees light square bishop with tempo) actually he can't do Nc5. Ahh, I agree Be3 seems very strong kinda cramping Black pieces. I guess moves after could go something like this 0-0, d4 (opening that center while Black king is still in middle) Did I understood you correctly?


	Pobble wrote: Blacks only aim in the game was to finish his opening - which you let him do.

Yes, I didn't use my advantage. Somehow I missed Nc5 as well as Be3! :/ Also as I pointed later I could cramp his position even more with Nh5-Ng6, f5 - right?


	Pobble wrote: Q - when did your opening end?

That depends what you mean by "opening". If you mean theory of opening then my theory ended at 3...Nd7, or even at 2...d6
If you mean development then 13.Bd2.


	Pobble wrote: Imagine a sword fight. Black sticks the hilt in the sand with the blade pointing up. He walks away intent on working out a method to tie his shoe laces. You start dancing around - swing - swing, upper cut, slice, around and around - then you throw yourself into the air and come down hard impaling yourself on his static sword. The sword was his two bishops! Black did nothing for them, but it was enough.

Nice analogy, I enjoyed it!


	Pobble wrote: Again, please read what I wrote. Please do not add your own narrative to my words and change their meaning. I find such things insulting. I will help you if I can, just don't tell me what I mean by my own words and we will get on great.

Where did I "add my own narrative to your words"? Can you point out exact sentences? I would add that English is not my primary language.
What I did, as far as I know, is asked questions, maybe silly, but still questions. I try to clarify things. When you wrote sentence you know exactly what you mean by it, but when I read it I can easily misinterpret it (it doesn't matter if English is my primary language) For example, when people say things like "I want big house" - How much is big? For you? For him? For me? Answers would, probably be different.

I guess what I want to say with this if I don't understand you I will not pretend I did. This is not high school where when teachers asks "Did you understand?" you will always answer "Yes, I did."


	zeitnotakrobat wrote: Besides many mistakes and inaccuracies in the game, your analysis is quite sloppy at some points.

What is the point of saying this? Yes, critics are good thing, but only if you add something positive or alternative. Saying "you played bad" "your analysis was bad" - doesn't help me at all. Don't you agree?
What were those inaccuracies? What is wrong with my analysis exactly? How could I "improve" it?


	zeitnotakrobat wrote: A player with a rating above 1800 playing the kings gambit MUST know what happens if you take fxe5 on move 3

I didn't take 3.fxe5. Why did you say this? I don't really get why you say this "above 1800 playing MUST know this opening line" - and what is if I don't know? I'm automatically not worth of being in class "A"?


	zeitnotakrobat wrote: ...after black's fatal 32 Kh8. White has at least two ways to win on the spot.

I admit I have poor endgame. Why did you say there were "at least 2 ways to win" but didn't say them? Clearly I didn't saw clear win. Are you trying to help me or to point out my 'mistakes' without any advices / suggestions?


	zeitnotakrobat wrote: On move 5 the best is 0-0, this is the most forcing.

Thank you.


	zeitnotakrobat wrote: I don't like 6Qb3 and especially 11Qc2, should be 11Qd1...

Yes, I don't like now too 6.Qb3. "should be 11.Qd1" - why?


	zeitnotakrobat wrote: What about 22Qxe5 Qb6+? Seems like black gets the advantage then.

I agree. :/

Thanks for your time to post guys. :roll:

Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:22 pm

Pobble

King

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 1384
Rating: 2200
Rating Class: National Master

Re: 1 mistake and game is over

It late here, so only one example-


	Quote: I have no interest to study this opening.

This reply ( not an answer! ) has no relation to what I wrote.
I guess this is what happened-
You did not understand why I wrote what I did. You substituted your own meaning by guess. Your reply only answers your guess. I find your reply to what I wrote petulant.

Instead you could have read what I wrote and question it - " Please explain why you wrote this ", or just " please explain ". I would not fault a child who just gave me - ? ( question ), though obviously from an adult I prefer one of the former forms.

Now let me explain why I wrote what I did.
1.As an introduction.
2.A little background regarding the opening with regards to myself, hopefully to pass onto you confidence in myself that I might have some idea what I'm prattling on about.

It was not to convince you about the opening!

I hope this helps you in our/others future discourse.

Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:05 pm

zeitnotakrobat

Rook

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:10 am
Posts: 208
Location: Southern Germany
Rating: 2249
Rating Class: National Master

Re: 1 mistake and game is over

Well my post was not meant to insult you.
It looks to me that your comments on the game are written with the impression that you played well and should have won this game. That also is implied by the thread title.
To improve you have to analyze your games objectively and that means also looking for better moves for your opponent. A good example is your comment after 6Qe7.
I guess you expected that move during the game and therefore even in the analysis didn't look for improvements.


	Quote: 6. Qb3 Qe7 {Forced & now both Bishops are stuck!}

I disagree, after Qb3 black is maybe even better. But Qe7 is not necessary and not forced at all.

I gave almost not variations because I wanted to point your attention to some moves for enhancing and expanding your analysis.
I could have given all variations, but I think you can learn much more finding them yourself.

Your comment


	Quote: 3. Nf3 {Maybe I should just exchange my f-pawn for center pawn. Also f-file would become open. What do you think guys?}

looks to me as if you considered 3 fxe5 and this would be a beginners mistake and loses on the spot.

The many general mistakes in the game were black's extremely bad opening play, white's unnecessary loss of time in the opening (delaying castling, delaying development by c3,Qb3 instead of 00 and d4). Later white still has a lead in development, but starts a queenside action instead of finding the right moment to open the position or improving the position of his pieces, while black cannot defend.
In the position white opens the center, Ra1 is undeveloped, Na5 doesn't support it, Bd2 is badly placed.
White just increased his material advantage, but didn't attempt to finish black off, especially after kh8??.

If you want to learn how to punish your opponents for useless pawn moves in the opening, study the games of Paul Morphy.

_________________
Veni, vidi, fleri!

Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:03 am

gigenieks

Knight

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:14 am
Posts: 34
Rating: 1938
Rating Class: Class A (1800-2000)

Re: 1 mistake and game is over

Pobble wrote:


	Quote: I have no interest to study this opening.

You did not understand why I wrote what I did. You substituted your own meaning by guess. Your reply only answers your guess. I find your reply to what I wrote petulant.

Instead you could have read what I wrote and question it - " Please explain why you wrote this ", or just " please explain ".

With that I wanted to say I'm already learning 4 openings slowly and it is enough for me. I guess I thought you started to suggest to explore that opening. I just wanted to say I have enough openings to learn for now. I admit my fault. And I'm sorry.


	Pobble wrote: Now let me explain why I wrote what I did. 1.As an introduction. 2.A little background regarding the opening with regards to myself, hopefully to pass onto you confidence in myself that I might have some idea what I'm prattling on about.

Thanks for clarifying this!


	zeitnotakrobat wrote: It looks to me that your comments on the game are written with the impression that you played well and should have won this game. That also is implied by the thread title.

I admit I thought I played quite good. Meaning no big mistakes. But I was very wrong. I think I understand why I thought so, it could be for 2 reasons:
a) My opponent almost didn't use time (from 30minutes he used like 7min or something). I guess I felt a bit angry (I don't know how to call this exactly). Like he is disrespecting me. He doesn't even think and makes (IMO) shitty moves... and wins in the end :shock:

(But the thing is, if I couldn't punish him for his mistakes he deserved to win!)

b) I think I psychologically felt like I was winning because my pieces and pawns (especially) was close to frontier line and started even to step in my opponent's land.

zeitnotakrobat wrote:


	Quote: 6. Qb3 Qe7 {Forced & now both Bishops are stuck!}

I disagree, after Qb3 black is maybe even better. But Qe7 is not necessary and not forced at all.

I agree with "after Qb3 black is maybe even better". That Qb3 was weird move...
But what did you mean by "Qe7 is not necessary and not forced at all" --- f7 is under attack and only move to defend it is: Qe7. That I call "forced". Do you see some nasty tactic for Black which allows Bxf7 for White?

zeitnotakrobat wrote:

Your comment


	Quote: 3. Nf3 {Maybe I should just exchange my f-pawn for center pawn. Also f-file would become open.

looks to me as if you considered 3 fxe5 and this would be a beginners mistake and loses on the spot.

I think I did annotation in wrong move. I didn't mean 3.fxe5 then black can Qh4+... I was thinking about fxe5 in 4th move (after Black did Nd7). Sorry my fault.


	zeitnotakrobat wrote: The many general mistakes in the game were black's extremely bad opening play, white's unnecessary loss of time in the opening (delaying castling, delaying development by c3,Qb3 instead of 00 and d4).

Yes, I did lose so much time unnecessary! c3 and Qb3 was strange moves made by me. I should had opened position asap, but I didn't..


	zeitnotakrobat wrote: Later white still has a lead in development, but starts a queenside action instead of finding the right moment to open the position or improving the position of his pieces, while black cannot defend.

I agree completely.


	zeitnotakrobat wrote: In the position white opens the center, Ra1 is undeveloped, Na5 doesn't support it, Bd2 is badly placed. White just increased his material advantage, but didn't attempt to finish black off, especially after kh8??.

Yes, you are right - my pieces are uncoordinated, unfortunately.

"especially after Kh8??" - You mean 32...Kh8? - how could I finish him off? Is there a tactic I could use immediately?
Can you explain this?


	zeitnotakrobat wrote: If you want to learn how to punish your opponents for useless pawn moves in the opening, study the games of Paul Morphy.

Thanks for suggestion.

OK, did I express myself adequately? :roll:

Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:56 am

zeitnotakrobat

Rook

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:10 am
Posts: 208
Location: Southern Germany
Rating: 2249
Rating Class: National Master

Re: 1 mistake and game is over

You did express yourself adequately. I didn't give the variations after 32Kh8 because I wanted you to find them, it's not difficult at all. Also the position after Qb3 is worth looking at, black has a typical manouvre here.

If you found something compare with my solution below:

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Veni, vidi, fleri!

Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:47 am

Pobble

King

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 1384
Rating: 2200
Rating Class: National Master

Re: 1 mistake and game is over

You did well. Like all Brits, I'm just glad the rest of the world can be bothered to learn English - with us being so lazy and all.

Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:23 pm

katar

King

Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 12:19 pm
Posts: 1783
Location: Los Angeles
Rating Class: Expert (2000-2200)

Re: 1 mistake and game is over


	Pobble wrote: You did well. Like all Brits, I'm just glad the rest of the world can be bothered to learn English - with us being so lazy and all.

Aha. So that's why you Brits colonized half the known world. So that your progeny would not be bothered to learn a second language.

That's planning ahead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire

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talkin bout PRACTICE http://www.chessvideos.tv/forum/viewtopic.php?p=63877#p63877

Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:00 pm

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