View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:46 am



Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
My Game#9 Pls Comment 
Author Message
King

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 1442
Rating: 2200
Rating Class: National Master
Post Re: My Game#9 Pls Comment
Obviously the relevence of my reply is measured by how fast I can or cannot type :lol: :lol: :lol:


Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:08 am
Profile ICQ
King

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 805
Location: England
Rating: 1840
Rating Class: Class A (1800-2000)
Post Re: My Game#9 Pls Comment
Pobble wrote:
I have seen many a so called ' coach ' for juniors over stress this Bf5/Nb4 idea to a ' pattern play ' for easy quick wins with many a game going-
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Bf5 3.e3 Nc6 4.Be2 Nb4 5.c3?? Nc2+!!!!!!!!!! Making many a parent happy for the money wasted. ( if they only knew better ) Obviously a less painting by numbers child might find 5.Na3 with c3 coming soon.


Hmm...sorry for going off topic now but I find this quite interesting. Don't you think you have to learn these cheap attacks first in order to be able to build up a more solid understanding of chess? I mean, everybody starts by learning the Scholar's mate right? Because even though it's Patzer play, a whole lot of white's plans are actually based around that basic idea, but in a more complex way. You shouldn't teach kids to play just for traps tricks, of course. But if you teach a kid a plan and let them put it to use, and see how it works, and then later they see how it doesn't work, I would have thought that experience is more valuable than just words in a classroom, studying theory without that real life understanding that comes from a beating. I would say as a teacher the job is really to educate, not just to win games on an individual basis. Which I guess is also what you're saying as well...but I guess I would say teaching kids an attacking motif, letting them try it out , and then analyse their win/loss after is real education.

I guess what is really important is that when the kid faces Na3, as they will do eventually, that the teach goes over the plan with them. This is really enforcing the logical process. "He played that, which makes my last move useless, so I have to find another one". But if you just teach them trappy lines and try to keep them happy and stupid, obviously that's bad :D


Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:36 pm
Profile
King

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 1442
Rating: 2200
Rating Class: National Master
Post Re: My Game#9 Pls Comment
What you find is that Na3 is known to the child but encouraged by his coach, the child will keep playing for the cheapo. A coach who can have children winning titles by such methods can get a good reputation. Usually our little champion ends by giving chess up while very young, but is quickly replaced. Bonus is the great coach has many little champions on his cv.

Sadly there are plenty of these coach types knocking around. I have and still do know plenty of them. I myself did not have dozens of little champions on my own cv, just a couple.


Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:16 pm
Profile ICQ
Knight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:38 pm
Posts: 85
Rating: 1620
Rating Class: Class B (1600-1800)
Post Re: My Game#9 Pls Comment
I am going through your analysis. Will let you know my comments.
Meanwhile while i was playing colle this move 3..g6 made me think as it was making whites colle bishop of Bd3 not that effective. While playing Colle system can you suggest what could be the best alternative for 3...g6 ..Bg7 blacks defence.
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d6 3.e3 g6 4.Bd3


Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:09 pm
Profile
King

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 1442
Rating: 2200
Rating Class: National Master
Post Re: My Game#9 Pls Comment
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d6 3.e3 g6 Black has chosen a Kings Indian set-up. Your correct to criticize 4.Bd3 and for a good reason that it is blunted. White is not going to go for a kingside attack for sure, as such dreams would require a more aggressive stance in the centre, pawns on d4 and e4. If you were to give black some extra moves for ' free ', they would likely involve the standard Bg7,0-0,Nbd7,e5,c6, when black wants a further d6-d5 followed by e5-e4. Such a plan for black normally fails in the fianchetto Kings Indian ( 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.g3 ) for black due to a timely cxd5 cxd5 ( directly after d6-d5 is played ) and Nb5 targeting c7 which cannot be defended. Long story cut short, black avoids this plan and prefers giving up the centre with a exd4. But remember, this is for specific reasons. I wonder how many players have simply copied the GMs in this line without understanding why the threat does not work or even if it existed? After all, exd4 is not a move black should want to play.

The above tells you to play 4.Be2, which avoids any possible pawn fork on e4. In effect you have transposed into a reversed Kings Indian Attack, or KIA for short. I think some guy even wrote a book on this 4.Be2 for white which only came out in the last year. The line is playable. My friend FM Tim Wall has beaten at least one GM that I know of, playing like this for white. After 4.Be2 white would follow up with 0-0,c4,Nc3,Qc2,b4 etc, while black normally gets his centre grip with e5-e4 forcing your knight back Nd2 or Ne1. This is very much ( reversed from French ) 1950s-1960s theory, and very club player today.

Even so, I do not like it. Blacks plan is very clear and easy to play sub 2200.

You are much more likely to see a modern GM defend against the KIA in a French, with something giving him the chance to grab the centre himself or against a robotic e-pawn push to the opponants side of the board even kingside attacking chances. The point is in modern chess to try and use the opponants plan against him, and not just play like ships passing in the night, with first in first served regarding plans.

1.e4 e6 French 2.d3 KIA d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.Nf3 c5 5.g3 You could easily get this but with white! But now instead of 5...Be7 ( reversed your 4.Bd3?! 4.Be2 ) a modern and very likely the best move is 5....g6. There would follow 6.Bg2 Bg7 7.0-0 0-0 8.Re1 ( remember his plan ) Nc6 9.c3 Re8 ( You could also play b6 to fiachetto and continue centralizing ) 10.e5 The big idea. Nd7 11.d4 f6! 12.exf6 Qxf6 And if anything, it is up to white to prove the position is equel. You as white would find this and any possible deviations easier because you have an extra tempo!


Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:17 am
Profile ICQ
King

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 1442
Rating: 2200
Rating Class: National Master
Post Re: My Game#9 Pls Comment
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.e3 Bg7 is a more tricky move order. You should keep your options open with 4.c4 as black still has the choice to play a Grunfeld which would make 4.g3 by white look really silly.

Against the Grunfeld your options would be limited to one variation but it is a good and solid one.
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.e3 Bg7 4.c4 d5 Grunfeld 5.Nc3,followed by simple development Be2 is again best,0-0. It's difficult to suggest more as black has many choices of how to play this position. Remember that because black has played g6, should he pin you ever with Bg4 then a h3 would force him to take your knight. You could also concider a early h3 just to make it hard for him to find a good post for his bishop.


Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:34 am
Profile ICQ
Knight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:38 pm
Posts: 85
Rating: 1620
Rating Class: Class B (1600-1800)
Post Re: My Game#9 Pls Comment
i am going through, i need some more time to reply. Appreciate your opinions..


Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:58 am
Profile
Pawn

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:15 am
Posts: 10
Rating: 2200
Rating Class: Expert (2000-2200)
Post Re: My Game#9 Pls Comment
King's Indian attacK with colors reversed is good but very difficult to handle for both sides.
Bisguier was the first that tried it in high level , against Fischer!!!

The problem is that you will rarely encounter someone that is willing to play like this.
Most Black players will prefer to exchange on d4.In that case the overextended white q-side pawns make the position again difficult to handle but quite playable.


Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:04 pm
Profile
Knight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:38 pm
Posts: 85
Rating: 1620
Rating Class: Class B (1600-1800)
Post Re: My Game#9 Pls Comment
I have gone through the analysis guys. I thank you for your suggestions and ideas.
For a kings Indian attack against colle system it is better for white to play Be2 rather than Bd3 and try to attack the blacks queenside. Also another idea is to finechetto the White bishop as well like g3, Bg2, O-O.

Thanks for your ideas..!!


Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:39 am
Profile
King

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 1442
Rating: 2200
Rating Class: National Master
Post Re: My Game#9 Pls Comment
Kartha, go with your gut and not what you think is supposed to be best and you'll do fine.


Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:10 pm
Profile ICQ
King

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 805
Location: England
Rating: 1840
Rating Class: Class A (1800-2000)
Post Re: My Game#9 Pls Comment
Pobble wrote:
Kartha, go with your gut and not what you think is supposed to be best and you'll do fine.


Ah that's been my mistake recently! You're supposed to be play from the gut...I've been playing from my bowels. Explains a lot :?


Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:14 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF