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curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40] 
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Post curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
Poster: curtains
Name: International Master Gregory Shahade
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Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:57 pm
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Probation

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
Your the only one that thinks your weak...

It'd be great to see you study chess again (like a maniac) I really believe you can get even better...

I also believe that everyone can get better. I mean, If you learn new things, why won't you improve? You would.

It's true about how some people just study wrong and waste loads and loads of time... I know such people. They then claim they have no talent and etc etc, but I really believe that hardwork in the right ways for anyone can bare loads of fruit or wtf ever.

Yeah, you pretty much made friends with everyone on this site :P(because your great at chess)

lol...at the problems... I guess we all think about life this much... and it's good to hear that we are not alone in this world and that everyone has goals and etc

This was a good video maybe therapy for you but lesson for us who are less great.

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Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:42 am
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Knight

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
OK, so I listened to the whole thing, and I love you too!!!

My point of view: Obviously you're a great chess and poker player, and I think that every man should try to improve as a person and in everything you find important, but... I just don't see why you're trying to to be a good scrabble player, you're already so good at a much 'better' board game (chess (maybe poker is a board game too, who knows?)), and who wants to be good at scrabble anyway? I can see the point of knowing lot of words, but then it's a better idea to read books or go to university and study some linguistic thingy, but there are no other good reason to be good at it. Maybe it's because I'm from Sweden and don't speak English so good that I think scrabble is boring and not worth spending a lot of time on, maybe scrabble is big in the US but for me being good at scrabble is like being good at cross-words, my great grandma likes cross-words, think about it.

I don't want to be rude or anything, because I admire you and I think I've watched every single one of your videos at least once, and I'm not against you trying to improve in different fields, but pick your fights carefully. You are so good at what you do (chess and poker) so I think you should stick to that, and maybe play piano/keyboard. Maybe I'm being selfish and just want you to pay for attention on chess and less on scrabble because I like your videos so much but as you say, you can't be as good at scrabble as you are at chess or poker, and waste of human potential is like the worst thing in the world so for you're own good and for humanity, play more chess, I know you can get you're rating up to 2600 if you just put your mind to it (I base this statement on my gut feeling).

Hope you read this, and understand what I'm saying (my English isn't perfect). Sorry for bad grammar, and lack of a good vocabulary (I see that I have overused some words, like 'good'), maybe I should start playing scrabble to improve it.

[EDIT]: I misspelled scrabble.


Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:41 am
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Pawn

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
Curtains loses? WAT? You'll get 'em next time.

I listened. Heaven help me but I did. Not too much to add, because only you know how much small improvements in chess would mean to you. For me I don't play that much so I don't study the game at all besides these videos.

Also, would very much like to see a Go video!


Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:10 am
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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
vkoy wrote:
OK, so I listened to the whole thing, and I love you too!!!

My point of view: Obviously you're a great chess and poker player, and I think that every man should try to improve as a person and in everything you find important, but... I just don't see why you're trying to to be a good scrabble player, you're already so good at a much 'better' board game (chess (maybe poker is a board game too, who knows?)), and who wants to be good at scrabble anyway? I can see the point of knowing lot of words, but then it's a better idea to read books or go to university and study some linguistic thingy, but there are no other good reason to be good at it. Maybe it's because I'm from Sweden and don't speak English so good that I think scrabble is boring and not worth spending a lot of time on, maybe scrabble is big in the US but for me being good at scrabble is like being good at cross-words, my great grandma likes cross-words, think about it.

I don't want to be rude or anything, because I admire you and I think I've watched every single one of your videos at least once, and I'm not against you trying to improve in different fields, but pick your fights carefully. You are so good at what you do (chess and poker) so I think you should stick to that, and maybe play piano/keyboard. Maybe I'm being selfish and just want you to pay for attention on chess and less on scrabble because I like your videos so much but as you say, you can't be as good at scrabble as you are at chess or poker, and waste of human potential is like the worst thing in the world so for you're own good and for humanity, play more chess, I know you can get you're rating up to 2600 if you just put your mind to it (I base this statement on my gut feeling).

Hope you read this, and understand what I'm saying (my English isn't perfect). Sorry for bad grammar, and lack of a good vocabulary (I see that I have overused some words, like 'good'), maybe I should start playing scrabble to improve it.

[EDIT]: I misspelled scrabble.



Ok 2 points:

1. I just don't love chess enough right now to spend all of my time on it, or even a very large % of my time. However the main reason might be #2.....

2. Once you become very skilled at something, the amount you can improve and the impact of your studying goes way down. For instance if I spent a month studying Shogi, I would improve immensely (I'm a beginner now as I've played maybe twice in my life and I suspect I could become a quite passable player in just one month, due to it's strong similarity with chess), however if I spent one month studying chess, I might be slightly stronger but that's about all one can hope for. So whenever you try to learn something new, the study time that you put in is more effective in showing immediate benefits. It's kind of like when you play a new video game, experience levels are really easy to earn at first, however later in the game it's very difficult and takes a lot of work. If you don't really really love the work you are doing above all other things, it's tough to justify putting in so much work for so little gain.


Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:48 am
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Pawn

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
Okay, so I just listened to that whole thing and it inspired me to register after lurking for many weeks.

You owe me twenty minutes of my life, and I want them back.

More seriously, being exceptionally good at something brings its own pressures, since you are more aware than "average" people of the fact you'd be even better if you did x or y.

For example, a 1600-or-so rated chess player can barely understand the difference between a 2450 player and a 2550 player, let alone draw up a work plan for closing the gap.

It is good to pursue excellence is everything we do. But it's also important to recognise that however hard we try, we have natural limitations. And - as you said elsewhere - life's full of great things. Part of the reason children become obsessed with pursuits like chess - and can learn and improve so quickly - is that they don't really have a good sense of perspective.

I mean really... what mature man or woman would want to spend too high a proportion of their time on something so ultimately trivial?


Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:04 am
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King

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
It does not matter how good you are if you do not like what you are doing.

For me it is like...I like playing chess but I hate to loose so therefore I do not play much. I could study and become better of course but no matter how much I study there will always be someone better than me and the same pattern exists. So no real conclusion really.

I like your discussion. I think the same stuff many times. All I can say is..the one who limits yourself the most is yourself.

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Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:22 am
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Pawn

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
I listened the whole thing!

Thank you very much for these two videos, waiting impatiently for new ones :D !

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"On the chessboard lies and hypocrisy do not survive long. The creative combination lays bare the presumption of a lie; the merciless fact, culminating in a checkmate, contradicts the hypocrite." - Emanuel Lasker


Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:15 am
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King

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
i listened to ur little rant, but i was on facebook doing my thing. I wasn't actually staring at the video for 30 minutes :P I see what ur saying. I feel the same way whenever I don't do as well as i think I ought to.

As for what to do next, I say whatever makes u happy. If ur happy studying 10 hours of chess per day, then go for it. If u want to mix it up a little and get better at scrabble, chess, poker, and go at the same time then go ahead. You only live life once. Is it worth spending 10 years of ur life studying chess to become a GM or is it better to become a better at something else?

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Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:47 am
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King
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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
My 2 cents. EDIT: this is not directed at curtains or anyone in particular.

There is not so much utility in improving at idle "games" aside from mental exercise and some social benefits. I mean, consider the practical value of studying investments and financial markets, learning how to cook, developing a physical fitness routine, furthering one's professional career, or investing time/energy into social and romantic relationships. The problem with chess, poker, Scrabble, Go, backgammon, checkers, Rubiks cube, etc. is that they are different variations of the same thing, which is why the skills cross over to some extent. And excelling at these competitive games is of course very soothing to the ego. What is more difficult is straying from one's comfort zone, b/c there is a very real chance of sucking-- of being (god forbid), below average at something. How about learning to dance salsa? Taking a cooking class? Learning piano/cello/guitar? Training for a marathon? Weight training? Becoming a yoga guru? There was a guy on here (TheChessGym, Rene Philips) who was a national master at chess and also won a world bench press competition. Mark Taimanov was a world-class pianist and a finalist in the chess candidates cycle. Josh Waitzkin was a chess I.M. and also now a martial arts champion as well. Emanual Lasker invented a mathematical theorem that bears his name in textbooks to this day. These are the chess figures who are the most impressive to me personally.

For example, a 12-year old international master has a real chance to reach the heights of chess. Should he sacrifice other elements of his life (esp social development) to actualize that potential? It depends on a person's subjective values. Would it be "bad" if the kid quit tournament chess b/c he suddenly became more interested in girls and sports? Personally, i think it would be overall positive. I think it's awesome that Kasparov quit chess to fight against the loss of democracy in Russia. Chess is just a game. Some people (or their parents) value being "the BEST" as a matter of pride. I don't, but it depends on a person's subjective values; our values dictate our priorities, our priorities suggest how we ought to spend our limited time on earth. Maybe we value being happy and having fun in the moment. Maybe we value being healthy and living to be 100. Maybe we value raising a family. Or being filthy rich. Or being a chess god. etc...

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Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:04 am
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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
I think everybody watched the whole thing. Initially when I saw the length I thought, "Wow, that must be some pretty deep analysis". But nope, just a standard curtains rant. It wasn't so bad though. In regards to your question, I also find I have a high degree of aptitude towards many things, and I can never stick with one thing long enough to be truly the top tier. Always kind of hovering on tier 2. There are some exceptions, but whatever. My point is I just enjoy being good enough at something to beat 80% of the people in the world. If some random person comes up to me and tells me they can beat me at poker, or chess, or (heh) Smash Bros., etc. about 80% of the time they're just full of crap. I don't need to be great to win, most of the time.

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Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:09 pm
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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
I think that the way that progress gets harder in any given subject as you reach higher levels of mastery makes it perhaps less enjoyable to continue working on improving at it. That's all. It's perfectly understandable. Personally I must say I have more respect and admiration for those people who manage to show consistency, dedication, etc, and really stick with something; because it is hard.


Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:14 pm
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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
I listened to it.

Answer) I'd rather be good at many things than amazing at one thing.

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Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:33 pm
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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
dont like a4 just pile up on d5... take a draw


Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:48 pm
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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
curtains wrote:
Ok 2 points:

1. I just don't love chess enough right now to spend all of my time on it, or even a very large % of my time. However the main reason might be #2.....

2. Once you become very skilled at something, the amount you can improve and the impact of your studying goes way down. For instance if I spent a month studying Shogi, I would improve immensely (I'm a beginner now as I've played maybe twice in my life and I suspect I could become a quite passable player in just one month, due to it's strong similarity with chess), however if I spent one month studying chess, I might be slightly stronger but that's about all one can hope for. So whenever you try to learn something new, the study time that you put in is more effective in showing immediate benefits. It's kind of like when you play a new video game, experience levels are really easy to earn at first, however later in the game it's very difficult and takes a lot of work. If you don't really really love the work you are doing above all other things, it's tough to justify putting in so much work for so little gain.


OK, good points. The comparison between a video game and how the process of learning stuff in real life was very nifty and allegoric (I'm addicted to video games), and I totally understand that you don't want to play chess right now, because I felt same way about chess not long time ago, and I can relate to other things as well.

And yeah, before I forget it (again, I was supposed to write this in my previous post), when it comes to entertainment value your videos are far superior to the other videos on this site (Dennis Monokroussos make great videos as well, but they are very different to yours, it's hard to compare). What you say is very interesting, it has passion even when you're not feeling like playing, and at least I think I learn something from listening, that's why I think most of us listened through your whole video. Thanks!

And really if you like scrabble or anything else you should probably play/do that, whatever makes you happy. It's just that to me scrabble is to chess what a triangle is to a piano, that doesn't mean it's anything wrong with it. People usually mock me because I like tool assisted speedruns, chess, rock music, video games and so on, but those things make me a little less miserable so stick to whatever makes your day a little more enjoyable. So sorry if I mocked you before.

Before trying to absorb what I've written I should point out to you that I'm not an all rational person myself who spend why time and energy on exactly the right things. For instance, I'm a pretty good artist when it comes to painting and drawing but I hardly ever do so because I just don't feel like it I feel a bit sad thinking about it), instead I try to play guitar which I don't do very well and I'm probably too old to ever be as good as I could have been if I had started at an early age and I probably lack the right genes as well. I was born with the ability to paint, not to play music. I'm aware that I'm a bit of a hypocrite. Maybe I play guitar because when I study I make fast progress (learn a new song or something) and I see the immediate benefits, as you say.

It's just that I'm good at almost everything, but I'm not the 'best' at anything, but I wish I were, so I guess I envy your chess skills and just think you shouldn't waste your potential (that's probably an exaggeration, I'm sure you're not even doing that). I'm really good at studying (things in general) and I'm a quick learner, you might say that I'm intelligent (I don't want to brag, but in general people get madder when I claim not to be so). So I had no problem learning chess and become a descent chess player (at least I think I am when you see to the time I've put in to it), and I learned to play guitar pretty quickly, the problem is that I picked up all these things after I quit high school, never went to a chess club when I was young, never went to a guitar teacher. So I will probably never reach the very top. The only things I have potential to be good at are my future job because I'm a good student (hopefully I can start studying medicine after the summer) and painting, because I have that talent naturally. I just wish that I had learned chess at an early age and guitar as well.

I don't even know what I wanted to say, I just can't stop writing.


Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:59 pm
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