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curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40] 
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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
Ok I watched it all....but only the second time around. First time around I didn't see it was this long and turned it off after the game. Then I saw everyody commenting on this game and had to notice!!

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Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:58 pm
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Knight

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
I would rather be great at one thing than decent to good to even very good at everything. Sadly, I just suck at everything.


Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:58 pm
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Pawn

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
If you ever feel bad just watch this:
viewtopic.php?t=2166


Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:18 pm
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Pawn

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
When you talk of potential, you should consider that a factor in reaching your potential is the desire and dedication you possess. Everyone says they can get better, you say you can be 2600. Maybe not, because what’s keeping you from doing so is that lack of desire you speak of. So in that sense, maybe you have reached your potential. Of course, this may just be a fancy way of calling you a lazy bum or maybe it just a nice rationalization.

Also, there is the question of the importance of chess. I think most serious chessplayers have some sense that chess is more than just a game. Is it any different than say, Candyland? In theory, no. They are both just games. Maybe controlling the Gumdrop Mountains is like a good centralized queen…. Or is chess the same as noble pursuits like mathematics and music?

I think your little therapy session touches a nerve with us all struggling to be the best we can be, because we all feel some obligation to do so, yet feel some guilt if we aren’t.


Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:24 pm
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Knight

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
please, curtains! get back into shape and post ten games a day again... :wink:


Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:23 pm
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Knight

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
p.s. what is the correct way to study chess?


Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:25 pm
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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
bebopbrain wrote:
p.s. what is the correct way to study chess?


I don't think there is one correct answer to this question.


Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:36 pm
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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
I listened to the whole thing. You seem self-reflective enough to know what you really want and intelligent enough to know it's not that simple. To answer your question about well rounded vs. highly accomplished, it's certainly easier to be well rounded I don't know if it's better (no glory).


Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:17 pm
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Pawn

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
So, being a fifteen year old kid i cant say that i have the experience, wisdom, or knowledge to give you a completely solid and beneficial response to your predicament. What i can say, however, is that if there is something that you have a passion for you should devote any possible moment you can doing whatever that thing is. What i am trying to say is you may love chess, poker, scrabble, and fifteen other games that may in terms of the collective human race be pointless, and you should spend all the time you can playing these "pointless games". The reason for this is very simple, in the long run it is important to be conceited. You shouldnt spend your entire life trying to make other peoples lives better at the cost of you having a boring, uneventful one. If you have the opportunity to find and do something you love, exploit that and make the most out of it. In your case specifically if it is greatness that you seek and love then putting in the effort to study those scrabble words or chess openings is worth it because it will ultimately lead to you completing your life feeling a sense of pride and happiness. But if you are simply seeking the entertainment of a wide variety of things then by all means pursue all of them because ultimately it comes down to whether or not you are happy.

I'll give you an example:

I LOVE speech and debate. I went to 19 tournaments this year including the california state tournament and i absolutely loved every minute of it. I do not regret the fact that i spent 19 of my weekends away from family and most of my friends because i was doing something i loved and i wasnt wasting my time on something that i didnt enjoy. if i HATED speech and debate and only went to those 19 tournaments in an attempt to get into the college of my choice then this was a complete waste of a big chunk of my life because ultimately, although the college i go to matters a lot to me, in the end it comes down to whether or not you enjoyed your life or not.

So, all i have to say is this. In the end you should be proud of what you accomplished over your lifetime and you should have enjoyed the things you do. If greatness is your goal then by all means pursue it, but if you aren't having fun attempting to achieve this greatness then two things will happen. One, you will likely never achieve this greatness due to a lack of fun, which leads two a lack of motivation. and two, you may feel at the end of your lifetime that things you did in your youth were a waste, and this is the absolute worst feeling (id assume) a person could possibly feel when their life is coming to a close.

Thanks for reading this.
Brad

P.S.

What pokersite do you play on and what is your handle? I'd love to rail your ring games sometime. thanks.


Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:24 am
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Knight

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
Oh man, I feel like an idiot. My previous two comments were made while watching. Now that I've seen the whole thing i suppose i should comment again...

As a music student, I've noticed that as your education in an art(and I would consider both chess and music as such) progresses and you become generally more knowledgeable, your ability to recognize true greatness or brilliance increases. If you naturally possessed some skill and ability in the art you are studying, this often has the effect of making you feel, early in your experience, like a big fish in a small pond- like you have some extraordinary aptitude that will inevitably lead you on to great things. This original skill or aptitude, which I believe a fair number of people have, exists in differing ratios of technical facility and what I'll call artistic facility, defined as the ability to recognize true greatness, brilliance, beauty, etc. Some with original skill have more technical facility and less artistic, others less technical and more artistic, and a very few have a lot of both. The nice thing is that technical facility means nothing in art because technical facility can be taught. Even then, technique is no more than a means to an end, the "tools to create the artwork." In music you can find artists such as John Coltrane and Mozart who have fairly different technical facilities, yet who are both held as emotive geniuses. Even old Delta blues players who possessed little or no classical theoretical knowledge of technique produced some of the most expressive and influential music of the Western world. All of this to say that you can produce art of true beauty with a violin, a piano, your voice, a pencil, two sticks, a chessboard, whatever. I've even seen some nice paintings done with Vegemite and Nutella. That said, technique in chess is a little different. There are many obviously correct techniques one must know in chess to even be an adequate player. There are only a couple ways to mate a lone king with a king and queen or a king and two rooks, for instance, and one must know elementary techniques such as this. Also, some moves are just always bad, like hanging a piece for absolutely no compensation. Functional technique in chess will never consist of bad moves. Also, one must be able to calculate- I can't imagine ever becoming an exceptional chess player without very good calculating ability. The point of all of this, however, is that these things can be taught, while the artistic and creative ability cannot. The conclusion I have come to is to stop focusing on the amount of creative and artistic ability I have. It makes no sense to apply an analytical mind to such things. Accept it for what it is. I think that merely the ability to recognize truly great chess or music or art speaks well of the chance that one can create it personally. That said, all it takes is experience, and experience in differing amounts for different people. Some will play chess at a master level when they are very young, some not until later in life. All one can do is keep whatever form of technique you use in shape and continue playing and gaining in experience.

I was in a lecture class on improvisation and one of our guest lecturers was telling us that before every gig he repeats his mantra: "fuck it!" He told us that in order to play well and enjoy yourself you have to not care, not think, not over-think.

Anyway, don't get too down Curtains. I think anyone trying to be great at anything has high and low periods. If you were always satisfied with your playing, you would never improve! You might want to check out this book called Effortless Mastery by this Jazz pianist, Kenny Werner. A lot of musicians I know have said it helped with the same kind of mental struggles that you are talking about, maybe it could apply to chess?

And in response to your response: What form of chess study do you find works for you?


Last edited by bebopbrain on Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:52 am
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King

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
Compulsory wrote:
I think up to me and tells me they can beat me at poker, or chess, or (heh) Smash Bros., etc. about 80% of the time they're just full of crap. I don't need to be great to win, most of the time.

dont go to my town and say that thats all we do in my town.

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draw? NO!!!!


Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:58 am
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King

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
im rated 1900 uscf at chess and can pretty much beat everyone i know with the exception of 1 person so the general piblic is impressed with me and people in the chess community are impressed with me to.i learned ho wto play go in march and i got unbeliaveably good at it in like 2 months i was better then people who had been playing for over a year (without any handicap stones).i had a lot of natural talent for the game and to be honest with you liked it better then chess.the problem is i had a lot of freinds in ches clubs and online and i didnt want to quit something i had been playing for so long.so i guess my obligations towards chess stop me from getting ridiculously great at anything else.but hey i could still get ridiculously great at chess.

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draw? NO!!!!


Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:12 am
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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
curtains wrote:
bebopbrain wrote:
p.s. what is the correct way to study chess?


I don't think there is one correct answer to this question.

what are the worse ways to study chess.

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draw? NO!!!!


Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:13 am
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Pawn

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
I like watching your videos but I just don't have time to watch 229 of them, so what I do is I watch only the videos that get a lot of comments, on the theory that the best videos will naturally provoke the most discussion. This works extremely well, as it led me to watch this video for instance. HOWEVER, CURTAINS YOU HAVE TO STOP COMMANDING US TO COMMENT OR YOU WILL BREAK MY SYSTEM!!!

I have thought about this before and I always come to the conclusion that it would SUCK to be Great at only one thing instead of merely Good at lots of things. First of all in order to get to the point of being Great, you'd have to basically sacrifice your childhood to spend all day every day training, and have overbearing parents that force you to train every day. Yuck. And even if you do become Great, what's the payoff? Fame? No way. I don't want paparazzi following me everywhere I go and taking pictures of me buying toilet paper. Fortune? Nah. You can make a plenty good living by merely being Good at what you do. Also it would be pretty boring to spend your entire life specializing in that one thing.

So I think it's best to forget about being the Best and instead focus on a variety of things you enjoy and are Good at.

Unless you really are the Best at something based solely on raw natural talent, like me at kung fu chess. 8)


Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:38 am
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King

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Post Re: curtains - L229: W vs Valet [31:40]
Yes, I too watched it wholely, but then again, I'm pretty fcked up :P. Your videos have somethiing though... you're just hypnotising! and fun normally tbh and that has nothing to do with how well you play chess. I even watch your scrabble stuff.

I know nothing about psychology. I do think though that you have a special mentality. Basically you can play any game and become great at it. You just won't settle for anything less. I mean, obviously you won't become great at rugby or football, you have to have other skills, but you will be great at any game you encounter. Do you think it's normal that you use a programm to learn new words for scrabble-purposes and do that a few hours per day? No it's not! I would do the same, but billions wouldn't. That's a special mentality.

And after you've become great, the challenge is off. You get desinterested, you move on to a new game. Will you ever reach total greatness? Probably not. Does it matter? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think you'll become more happy if you've become supergreat at chess. It'll take a lot of time to keep up and to reach it just sucks up all of your time. Will you get more adorement if you reach it? Only slightly. Will you ever think you reached your full potential? It's a never ending way!

I don't mind it tbh if you talk about this stuff. Pretty interesting dilemma, like you said. It's pretty sick though that you get such mass txt replies, like this one... Oh well, what can I say, finally a real problem! not like those pesky Africans begging for food or clean water. (yes that was sarcasm in an attempt to show what kind of a problem we're really talking about).

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And seeing the beauty of the Dragon-variation, the cosmos re-aligned its stars and immortalised it. For even now, we call that constellation the Dragon constellation.

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Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:27 am
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