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curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16] 
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Rook

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Post Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
Now there is also one method you can justify yourself you are doing an ok thing. You can ask yourself if you would pay for something you wanted but could not download anywhere. I for example would not pay for bleach animes even though I watch them currently.


Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:21 pm
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Knight

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Post Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
Keep downloading for free, but stop eating with plastic spoons.


Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:02 pm
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Post Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
Very nice game. Enjoyed it like I always do.

The one comment I do have- that hundreds of dollars language software program wouldn't cost so much if more people bought it : /

You have a great attitude though, no one is perfect and it's better to admit our mistakes than to swindle ourselves into some poor justification.

Keep up the good work, you've won 6 of your last 7 games on chessstud. That's awesome!

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Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:56 pm
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Knight

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Post Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
It's funny because just before I watched this video I was reading the CVTv forum rules (i know im a loser)

And rule number 1 is not to discuss or promote the use of illegal software. i wonder if admin will rationalize that it would be best not to ban curtains because he's the best chess in the world.


Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:03 pm
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Post Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
You'd make an interesting radio show host!

Dude... that's really cynical (not to mention self-refuting) to rationalize that all rationalization is B.S. ;-)

And Don't Download This Song. :-)

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Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:58 pm
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Post Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
dutto wrote:
It's funny because just before I watched this video I was reading the CVTv forum rules (i know im a loser)

And rule number 1 is not to discuss or promote the use of illegal software. i wonder if admin will rationalize that it would be best not to ban curtains because he's the best chess in the world.


The main idea behind that rule is that we do NOT want CV to facilitate software piracy. We don't want threads where people ask how to get illegal copies of programs, etc.

It's a difficult issue because we don't mind a discussion about things but we don't want to expose ourselves to legal problems. The main thing to keep in mind with that rule is not to talk about software/music piracy methods or help each other pirate things.

Also, the fact that curtains is talking about it does raise a thorny issue for us ;)

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Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:54 pm
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Post Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
mentioning that one has succumbed to downloading illegally is not the same as instructing one how to do so, or advocating that one do so, in my opinion


Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:36 pm
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Post Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
I rationalize playing poker... I am sixteen years old, and i know its illegal, but hell, my brother knows i am great at poker and he stakes me to play for him... I guess i rationalize my poker playing by convincing myself that it will improve my play and i can play my own game when i turn 18... But honestly, how bad is underage gambling? i feel there is a large difference between underage drinking and underage gambling for sure... Gambling is about maturity in my opinion. I feel that i am definitely more mature then a lot of the folks who have no discipline and gamble all their money away. My conclusion is that an age law makes no sense... a maturity law would be much more affective, buts thats simply impossible to emplace, therefor the government had to come up with an age at which they feel a person is "mature".

Just my 2 cents
Brad


Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:46 pm
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Post Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
Great rant, as always. It's interesting (to me) that there are certain crimes that are expected of people, while others are universally shocking. This has more to do with society than the law, in my opinion. For example, if you leave your car unlocked and someone takes a bag from it, the police in this country (the UK) treat you (the victim) as if you were more or less asking for it. There are lots of "expected" crimes like this, and breach of copyright is certainly one of them. Those involved in the illegal activity use arguments like these:
Everyone else is doing it.
The police are only really after the big distributors, not the little guys.
The victims either deserve it (big corporations etc) or are insured anyway.
The law is stupid.
It's easy to do.

The problem with copyright breach is that it's pretty much always going to be easy to do on the Internet, which I suspect drives the rest of the arguments.

Aside: I generally avoid copyright breaches myself (not completely), but I am not especially interested in music, and use almost no software that is priced. I don't pay for the free software that I use heavily, which causes twinges of my conscience. But I did pay for some chocolate (scandalously being robbed of the book, which I was sure I'd win of course), so that makes up for everything.


Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:04 am
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Post Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
d-man wrote:
mentioning that one has succumbed to downloading illegally is not the same as instructing one how to do so, or advocating that one do so, in my opinion


exactly :)

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Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:55 am
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Knight

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Post Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
How is what you are calling "not rationalizing" any different from rationalization? At the bottom line, lying to yourself/rationalizing and knowingly doing something you know is wrong come to the same action, and both are ways of making the cognitive transition from your framework of goals/values/etc to that action. "I know this is wrong, but I'm going to do it anyway" is, in every meaningful way that I can see, a rationalization.

edit: The latter is honest, but being honest with yourself doesn't change anything if you choose to ignore your sense of right/wrong anyway.


Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:43 am
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Post Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
cowpig wrote:
How is what you are calling "not rationalizing" any different from rationalization? At the bottom line, lying to yourself/rationalizing and knowingly doing something you know is wrong come to the same action, and both are ways of making the cognitive transition from your framework of goals/values/etc to that action. " I know this is wrong, but I'm going to do it anyway" is, in every meaningful way that I can see, a rationalization.

edit: The latter is honest, but being honest with yourself doesn't change anything if you choose to ignore your sense of right/wrong anyway.

Exactly! I believe this is different from saying "This is wrong and I'm doing it," in that you're not using your knowledge to explain your action.

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Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:01 am
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Post Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
Honestly I don't think that's rationalization at all.


Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:21 am
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Post Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
DandyDanD wrote:
cowpig wrote:
How is what you are calling "not rationalizing" any different from rationalization? At the bottom line, lying to yourself/rationalizing and knowingly doing something you know is wrong come to the same action, and both are ways of making the cognitive transition from your framework of goals/values/etc to that action. " I know this is wrong, but I'm going to do it anyway" is, in every meaningful way that I can see, a rationalization.

edit: The latter is honest, but being honest with yourself doesn't change anything if you choose to ignore your sense of right/wrong anyway.

Exactly! I believe this is different from saying "This is wrong and I'm doing it," in that you're not using your knowledge to explain your action.


To rationalize is "to provide plausible but untrue reasons for conduct." It is "to bring into accord with reason or cause something to seem reasonable: as to attribute one's actions to rational creditable motives without analysis of true and especially unconscious motives."

Cowpig- How is curtains lying to himself? He is knowingly doing something that is against the law, but he is doing so with full knowledge of the situation and no distortion of the facts. This is online thievery and nothing else.

Curtains is stating that he is in the wrong. He is not creating any excuses or trying to explain how, even though he is doing something illegal, it isn't really wrong. I don't see where he is rationalizing?

Rationalizing that all rationalizing is bullshit - a humorous induction, that is at worst, probably still 99% correct.

Of course, I could be wrong so I wait for your reply.

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Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:33 am
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Post Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
Hmm, my argument is something like:

P1) I know that it's wrong to do this.
P2) (Implied premise) It seems reasonable (or acceptable) to do things that are wrong.
C) I know that this is wrong to do this, but (it seems that) I'm not being unreasonable in doing this.

At least the impression that seems to be given is that he's not being unreasonable.

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Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:44 pm
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