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katar - 1.e4 e5 for Black: Intro and Scotch Game [22:03] 
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Post Re: katar - 1.e4 e5 for Black: Intro and Scotch Game [22:03]
Hi KG (no B),

You self-identify as a class C player on your posts. Steve and katar self-identify as Experts. That's three rating classes. Not my fault if you're not really a class C...

As for the rest, consider it reiterated.

L8erz...
=wild=

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Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:37 pm
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Post Re: katar - 1.e4 e5 for Black: Intro and Scotch Game [22:03]
Greco.

I've learned not to "debate" chess hobbyists who hold fervent beliefs about oddball openings. It's just not productive.

However, i'd like to request that you please post your Latvian Gambit promotions in another thread, as they are not really relevant here and they tend to drown out the substantive responses to my video and my video series in general.

In return, i will not go into your video threads and trash your openings in lengthy posts there. (which i don't have time or intention to do anyhow)

Thanks for the courtesy and best of luck on the chessboard and off.

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Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:58 pm
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Post Re: katar - 1.e4 e5 for Black: Intro and Scotch Game [22:03]
Wow, you guys are too nice... LOL

Okay then: thanks, and just to let you know, I don't mess around with 'User Control Panel' all that much, so yeah... Y'know what they say: expect the worst outcome, so you won't ever be disappointed (but you might be pleasantly surprised!) This applies both to what I 'claim' for my rating, but also to how you guys haven't reamed me out too bad...
Most of the time these types of places force me to
"Hover like a vulture,
my inferior subculture"
In return, here's an an actual, living, breathing, on-topic post where I won't mention the Latvian Gambit once! (Oh, I guess I just did, didn't I?) Well, no more--here goes (wow, I haven't done this for a while... it seems so... different...) LOLWUT!

What do you guys think of the following line in the Scotch? (That's what this video was about originally, right?)

1. P-K4 P-K4
2. Kt-KB3 Kt-QB3
3. P-Q4 PxP
4. KtxP Q-R5!?

I've actually played this as Black a bit... even though I normally flee 'materialistic' lines such as this one like the plague, it IS offbeat, and so it MIGHT involve me... LOL

Is it sound for Black, or does he have to play a more common move?

Greco

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Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:03 am
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Post Re: katar - 1.e4 e5 for Black: Intro and Scotch Game [22:03]
My understanding is that that Scotch line isn't too well regarded, though as with anything sharp if white doesn't know what's going on he'll probably be in trouble. I think (from not very good memory) that 5.Nc3 followed by Ndb5 gives white a strong attack on black's king in return for sacrificing his e-pawn. I think something like:
5.Nc3 Bb4 (Kt-QB3 B-Kt5)
6. Be2 Qxe4+ (B-K2 QxKP)
7.Ndb5 Bxc3 (KKt-Kt5 BxKt)
8.bxc3 Kd8 (PxB K-Q1)
is the kind of thing that you get. Black's a pawn up but (as I remember reading in some book), "white's having all the fun"!

I hope I translated the notation into descriptive properly.


Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:36 am
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Post Re: katar - 1.e4 e5 for Black: Intro and Scotch Game [22:03]
Wow, I'd play that as White, but I didn't know that *that* many people were willing to play positions like that a pawn down... for instance, does White really have compensation for the pawn AND the wrecked structure? Well, I'd hope so, LOL... maybe this reminds me somewhat of--

1. P-K4 P-K4
2. Q-R5 !? Kt-KB3!
3. QxP ch. B-K2

And Black will gain more than enough compensation by harassing the queen, with Kt-B3, B-Q2
etc. ...

Greco

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Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:53 am
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Post Re: katar - 1.e4 e5 for Black: Intro and Scotch Game [22:03]
King_Greco wrote:
1. P-K4 P-K4
2. Q-R5 !? Kt-KB3!
3. QxP ch. B-K2

And Black will gain more than enough compensation by harassing the queen, with Kt-B3, B-Q2
etc. ...

Greco

Don't you just love players who bring their queen into the game too early?

Dennis Monokroussos did a nice video on this line when he faced it in the 2009 Indiana St Ch. Here is the link viewtopic.php?t=5912 though I think you need to be a paying member to watch this video now.

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Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:21 am
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Post Re: katar - 1.e4 e5 for Black: Intro and Scotch Game [22:03]
sfarmer29 wrote:
I think you need to be a paying member to watch this video now.

Nope, still works for me.

I've only played that line once (as white) in a blitz game on the internet and won when he got his queen stuck on g2 after I played Bf3. Black's king is stuck in the centre, he has to watch for Nxc7 stuff and he has very poor development, I'd say White has plenty of compensation.


Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:29 am
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Post Re: katar - 1.e4 e5 for Black: Intro and Scotch Game [22:03]
I'm going through this series for the third time, this time taking some notes which I've put into pseudo-PGN notation. I say "pseudo" because I don't know if the multiple comments in the same location will work with all programs one might input this into.

The PGN doesn't follow the video 100% chronologically, but rather it puts things into the main line regardless about when katar talked about them -- though the time correspondence is fairly high. I hope everyone finds this useful. If anyone spots a transcription error, let me know and I'll fix it and update this post.

[Event "KATAR 1...e5 VIDEO #1: SCOTCH GAME"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxe4 Nf6 5. Nxc6
(if 5. Nc3 transposes to Scotch Four Knights)
5... bxc6
(Black avoids trading queens)
6. e5
(if 6. Bd3 d5 is equal, if 7. Qe2 dxe4 8. Bxe4 Nxe4 9. Qxe4 Qe7 10. Qxe7 Bxe7)
6... Qe7
(not 6... Ne4, no mention of 6... Nd5)
7. Qe2
(if 7. f4 d6 and White loses pawn tempos leaving Black ahead in development)
7... Nd5
(if 8. Nc3 Nxc3 9. bxc3 wreaking White's pawns)
(if 8. Nd2 Qe7 planning Bb7 and O-O-O and f6)
(plan to keep knight on d5, but if later c4 then Nb6 planning d5)
8. c4
(not 8... Ba6 9. b3 because a-pawn is blocked)
(Kasparov-Karpov 8. c4 Nb6 9. Nd2 Qe6 10. b3 a5 & Kasparov won in 110)
8... Nb6 9.Nc3
(if 9. Nd2 Qe6, same as with 9. Nc3)
9... Qe6
(planning d5)
(if 10. b3 a5 planning a4 minority attack to break up White's pawns)
10. Qe4 d5
(10... Ba6 is playable but more complicated)
11. exd6 Qxe4
(or 11... Bxd6)
12. Nxe4 cxd6

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Last edited by Wildman on Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:07 pm
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Post Re: katar - 1.e4 e5 for Black: Intro and Scotch Game [22:03]
Things were supposed to be indented, but I don't know how to defeat the auto-formatting. Here's a version with the main line highlighted which may read better in the forum:

[Event "KATAR 1...e5 VIDEO #1: SCOTCH GAME"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxe4 Nf6 5. Nxc6
(if 5. Nc3 transposes to Scotch Four Knights)
5... bxc6
(Black avoids trading queens)
6. e5
(if 6. Bd3 d5 is equal, if 7. Qe2 dxe4 8. Bxe4 Nxe4 9. Qxe4 Qe7 10. Qxe7 Bxe7)
6... Qe7
(not 6... Ne4, no mention of 6... Nd5)
7. Qe2
(if 7. f4 d6 and White loses pawn tempos leaving Black ahead in development)
7... Nd5
(if 8. Nc3 Nxc3 9. bxc3 wreaking White's pawns)
(if 8. Nd2 Qe7 planning Bb7 and O-O-O and f6)
(plan to keep knight on d5, but if later c4 then Nb6 planning d5)
8. c4
(not 8... Ba6 9. b3 because a-pawn is blocked)
(Kasparov-Karpov 8. c4 Nb6 9. Nd2 Qe6 10. b3 a5 & Kasparov won in 110)
8... Nb6 9.Nc3
(if 9. Nd2 Qe6, same as with 9. Nc3)
9... Qe6
(planning d5)
(if 10. b3 a5 planning a4 minority attack to break up White's pawns)
10. Qe4 d5
(10... Ba6 is playable but more complicated)
11. exd6 Qxe4
(or 11... Bxd6)
12. Nxe4 cxd6

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Last edited by Wildman on Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:15 pm
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Post Re: katar - 1.e4 e5 for Black: Intro and Scotch Game [22:03]
Thanks Wildman, I did a cut 'n paste and it worked.

I wish Chessbase would allow us lessor types use their multimedia capabilities as this would save a lot of these headaches, but they won't do it. Too bad, Chessbase and DGT both could make a lot of money by lowering their prices a bit and putting things into the reach of the public. With the Chessbase media you can move the pieces back and forth and have the pgn right there to evaluate.

Again, thanks for your efforts on this.

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Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:23 pm
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Post Re: katar - 1.e4 e5 for Black: Intro and Scotch Game [22:03]
Hey, katar is really the guy who did all the work. I just sat there transcribing as he went. I need to get this stuff into a format where I can really learn it. Not that the videos aren't great for understanding the general ideas, but I need something more accessible to get the details set in my mind.

I've got the second video transcribed now too. I think only #3 and #4 need transcribing since he started supplying PGNs with #5 and #6.

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Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:14 am
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Post Re: katar - 1.e4 e5 for Black: Intro and Scotch Game [22:03]
With this series wrapping up and clocking in at 4+ hours, please note there is a Wiki here:

http://www.chessvideos.tv/wiki/index.ph ... _for_Black

There are a few 1...e5 repertoire books that i know of with further information on the lines in the videos:

Marin - Beating the Open Games
I don't have this excellent book, but i know Marin recommends a few of the same lines, including:
    Vienna, Bishops, and Kings Gambit Declined (Video 5)
    Giuoco Pianissimo by transposition (Video 3)

Emms - Play Open Games as Black
Great book, which i consulted on the Scotch (Video 1), Center Game (Video 6), Ponziani (Video 4), and certain parts of the Two Knights (Video 3).

Davies - Play 1.e4 e5
Decent starting point for the King's Gambit Declined positions in Video 5.

Kaufman - Chess Advantage in B&W
I don't have this terrific book, which is too bad b/c Kaufman recommends the Modern defence to the King's Gambit (Video 6) and the Berlin defence to the Ruy Lopez (Video 8,9).

Cox - Berlin Wall
A good but not great book, which i consulted for the Berlin lines.

Tarrasch - The Game of Chess
Published in 1930, this was the basic starting point for many lines.

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Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:28 am
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Post Re: katar - 1.e4 e5 for Black: Intro and Scotch Game [22:03]
I'm curious as to what kept the Cox book out of the "great" category? I have it and think it's good- my only complaint was that the organizing structure was looser than I prefer.

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Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:01 pm
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Post Re: katar - 1.e4 e5 for Black: Intro and Scotch Game [22:03]
Re: Cox book.

Proof-reading is a huge problem. There are no periods or capital letters to divide sentences! There's no "quickstart" feature. It took me quite some time to figure out that each of the various theory chapters is a standalone, mutually exclusive approach to the opening with almost no overlap. Ahh, ok...

Also, the intro thematic sections are not "keyed" to the various theoretical approaches. The book is like, here's all the info, here you go, you figure it out. It's a book that "feels" too overwhelming. It would not have taken long to organize the book more pedagogically. I think the writing could be much more pedagogic as well. Also there seem to be a lot of looong 20-move variations which are simply Rybka's first choice the whole way, as i found out myself with Rybka3 on my laptop.

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Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:48 pm
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Post Re: katar - 1.e4 e5 for Black: Intro and Scotch Game [22:03]
Thanks for that- I agree that it could have been much better organized. The proofreading issue didn't jump out at me as much but then again I am a big fan of e.e. cummings :)

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