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JoshSpecht - Endgame Study: Saavedra Position [4:13] 
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Post JoshSpecht - Endgame Study: Saavedra Position [4:13]
Poster: JoshSpecht
Name: Josh Specht
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Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:22 pm
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Here's the link to the article on the history of the Saavedra position:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~timkr/chess/saavedra.htm

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Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:19 am
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GREAT video, THANKS!!!


Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:35 pm
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Great study!

What if instead of playing ...Rd4 black plays ...Rf3?
This turns this study into a Q vs R endgame, which as you know in OTB play can easily become a draw.


Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:07 pm
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Woot?!

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Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:26 am
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Nibbler, that's an interesting point. Going for the Q vs. R position is an excellent practical try...I guess we'll have to master Q vs. R. Fortunately we have the endgame simulator to help with that :)

P.S. Welcome to the forums Nibbler!

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Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:59 am
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Great study!

What if instead of playing ...Rd4 black plays ...Rf3?
This turns this study into a Q vs R endgame, which as you know in OTB play can easily become a draw.


You've made a little mistake here.

-- the problem in Q v R endgames is trying to force the King to the edges of the board, this as you rightly say, can easily be drawn in otb play.

in this position however the black king is trapped, meaning that most of the hard work is done for you.
(thus, reducing the possibility of black drawing)

for example, after Rf3 c8=Q, according to shredder's database (black to move) its mate in 17.


Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:41 am
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Well, mate in 17 still poses some practical difficulty :) But nothing that our endgame simulator can't solve!

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Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:44 am
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JoshSpecht wrote:
Well, mate in 17 still poses some practical difficulty :) But nothing that our endgame simulator can't solve!



yes it does, but the real technical skill required to win Q v R endgames is greatly reduced by the fact the king is trapped.


Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:02 pm
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True :) I'm planning to make a video explaining the entire winning process, not just how to win the the key position that Lolli identified.

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Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:06 pm
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great endgame!
this only proves that not always the stronger is the better.


Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:40 am
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JoshSpecht wrote:
True :) I'm planning to make a video explaining the entire winning process, not just how to win the the key position that Lolli identified.


Josh,

BTW, your video on the Lolli position was excellent.

I have been looking a long time for any material that helps to explain the process of checkmating with K+Q vs K+R and have found nothing. Even the classics like Fine's, "Practical Chess Endings", don't help. Most endgame books that even bother talking about this configuration, only say things like: the defending King must be brought to the edge of the board, the Rook must be separated from the King, and Zugzwang is used to force the defender into checkmate or to lose the Rook.

That's as helpful as someone telling you that all you have to do to ski is: maintain your balance, make turns to avoid obstacles, and stop when you get to the bottom.

So I can't wait for your video on this subject. You will be making a big contribution to chess practice, in my estimation.

Stan


Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:01 am
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nibbler wrote:
JoshSpecht wrote:
True :) I'm planning to make a video explaining the entire winning process, not just how to win the the key position that Lolli identified.


Josh,

BTW, your video on the Lolli position was excellent.

I have been looking a long time for any material that helps to explain the process of checkmating with K+Q vs K+R and have found nothing. Even the classics like Fine's, "Practical Chess Endings", don't help. Most endgame books that even bother talking about this configuration, only say things like: the defending King must be brought to the edge of the board, the Rook must be separated from the King, and Zugzwang is used to force the defender into checkmate or to lose the Rook.

That's as helpful as someone telling you that all you have to do to ski is: maintain your balance, make turns to avoid obstacles, and stop when you get to the bottom.

So I can't wait for your video on this subject. You will be making a big contribution to chess practice, in my estimation.

Stan



1) If you search, I think Josh has recently posted a video demonstrating the win.

2) see.... http://www.shredderchess.com/online-che ... abase.html


Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:33 am
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Stan,

I'm going to make a video on how to force the king to the edge of the board and checkmate with K + Q vs. K + R sometime next week (my current video, on the Lolli position, only shows how to win once the king is on the edge of the board). Once I make the video explaining the entire win, I'll PM you. :)

I agree that there is a surprising dearth of material on how to force a win in that position.

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Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:39 am
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Thanks for the video, not to memtion the intelligent posts which followed. CV.TV is certianly a "Crown Jewel" of web sites!

"If I were stranded on an island and could on have 3 websites.........." :P

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Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:01 am
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