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katar - B vs 2050 Italian Game [27:48] 
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Post katar - B vs 2050 Italian Game [27:48]
Poster: katar
Rating Class: Expert (2000-2200) | Videos Made: 83
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Liked By: Fox, dewetha, kamus, sfarmer29, Sarciness, cynima, kerryvv


Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:53 pm
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King

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Post Re: katar - B vs 2050 Italian Game [27:48]
after both allowing white to to play b5 herself or Black playing b5 kicking the bishop it already looks super unpleasant to play. Maybe it is fine and you can defend, but it isn't the type of position that you are going to have fun playing.

Good way to hang in there despite the misery for most of the game.


Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:37 pm
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Post Re: katar - B vs 2050 Italian Game [27:48]
Fascinating double-edged game. A draw seems like a just result in this game considering the "win" pendulum swung in both directions. Where are all these strong children coming from BTW? Once again, White's Ba4 gave Black issues in the game- have you abandoned the 0-0-0 approach or do you have a new strategy now? In the game, I though again how Q on e7 would avoided some of those problems but I understand from your previous comments why this doesn't look good to you. I also thought you could have unpinned with N(f6)-g8-e7 but of course that seems pretty slow and who wants to "undevelop" the N back to g8 after moving to f6 in the first place? Thanks again for sharing. :)

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Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:12 am
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Post Re: katar - B vs 2050 Italian Game [27:48]
thx for watching.
kamus wrote:
have you abandoned the 0-0-0 approach or do you have a new strategy now? In the game, I though again how Q on e7 would avoided some of those problems but I understand from your previous comments why this doesn't look good to you. I also thought you could have unpinned with N(f6)-g8-e7 but of course that seems pretty slow and who wants to "undevelop" the N back to g8 after moving to f6 in the first place? Thanks again for sharing. :)

yeah , abandoning 0-0-0 unless White has played h3. even there 0-0 is more solid.

the latter maneuvers seem like complicated solutions to a very simple problem (the problem being White's queenside pawn storm). I'm not even sure they can be considered solutions. Anyhow 0-0 is a simple solution to a simple problem, and all the GMs play 0-0. so for me that's that.

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Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:37 am
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Post Re: katar - B vs 2050 Italian Game [27:48]
Kids, they play the darndest chess. I came out of retirement in the early '80's, faced a small kid and only managed a draw as well, I went back into retirement. A few years later I found out it was Tal Shaked and he was grossly underrated when I faced him. When I'd heard he'd become a GM I came out of my second retirement, facing the reality that I will have to face more and more of these kids in the future.

Katar, never a dull moment in your games, huh? If you go back to 0-0, won't things get boring for you? jk

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Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:57 am
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Post Re: katar - B vs 2050 Italian Game [27:48]
Good stuff as always! Both you and your opponent calculated well and were relentlessly pursuing your respective attacks. A draw was a fair outcome.

I think you are right to abandon the long-castling strategy in the event that White has not committed to h2-h3. Honestly, in the cases where you have played a7-a6 and the pawn center for White is e4/d3 vs e5/d6, your King is most likely safer in the center than on the queenside! But of course short castling is also a good approach. My favorite situation is the exceptional one where White has committed both to short castling and h2-h3 and Black has remained flexible with his King, because sometimes Black can actually whip up an attack on the kingside while keeping his King in the middle, especially in the central pawn situation I described earlier.


Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:00 pm
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Post Re: katar - B vs 2050 Italian Game [27:48]
Several of Basman's games in St. George Opening, although a "one foot in the grave" opening (Dennis' term), demonstrated that Black's king was often safer in the center than on either wing. Different pawn structure, of course, but I remember him saying that the idea of automatically castling deserved to be challenged as stereotypical thinking. He favored double rook lifts in many of those games as a way to activate the rooks instead. Not sure how well you can apply that in the Italian but Laurent's comment reminded me of Basman's idea.

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Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:44 pm
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Post Re: katar - B vs 2050 Italian Game [27:48]
Laurent's comments are always golden but i'm not sure about staying in the center. Usually White goes c2-c3, Re1, and then d3-d4 to open the center. Maybe there is some situation where it's not suicidal-- Bg5 h6, Bh4 g5 comes to mind when Black gets a huge attack. Also maybe if white put a knight on c3 slowing his central expansion black can survive longer in the center.

This whole idea of trying to attack White's king after White opened 1.e4 and developed sensibly and did not overextend in the center... it cannot really be justified, and the good Doctor Tarrasch would not approve. If i wanted my life to be complicated or defend against mating attacks i should have played Sicilian or some kind of flank system with g6. lolol

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Last edited by katar on Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:54 pm
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Post Re: katar - B vs 2050 Italian Game [27:48]
Katar, I think you are right that it is no good when White has his center pawns fluid with c3 and d4. However, if, as you said, White has committed already to Nc3, then I think Black might be able to get away with this kind of double-edged strategy, although it is by no means necessarily better for Black. As you also point out, White hasn't really done anything 'wrong,' even with this Nc3 setup, so it is doubtful that Black can punish White's play.

I actually made a video about this attacking idea on here called 'King Committal' which uses an Italian game example as well as a wonderfully creative game by Kramnik in the English opening.

Also, Kamus, I have not even heard of this St. George opening ... pray tell!


Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:08 pm
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Post Re: katar - B vs 2050 Italian Game [27:48]
1. e4 a6!? 2. d4 b5!? . It's a pretty dodgy opening but not entirely awful and still played occasionally by strong players but with lackluster results for Black. The most famous game is Karpov- Miles, Skara 1981 that I believe was the only loss Miles ever managed to inflict upon the world champion.

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Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:44 pm
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Post Re: katar - B vs 2050 Italian Game [27:48]
This girl can certainly play! I think on balance white deserved the win but you gotta be able to finish these things! Good swindle and you could possibly have had even more.

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Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:11 am
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Post Re: katar - B vs 2050 Italian Game [27:48]
@kamus: Ah, okay. I've heard of 1. e4 a6 2. d4 b5, just not by name. Probably it is not as bad as its reputation.


Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:27 pm
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