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gentlewhisper - kamus vs GW part2 [27:25] 
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Post gentlewhisper - kamus vs GW part2 [27:25]
Poster: gentlewhisper
Rating Class: Class B (1600-1800) | Videos Made: 73
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This is half of a dual commentary. Other half: gentlewhisper - kamus vs GW part1

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Liked By: Fox, kamus, Andrewrun, Sarciness, eimaj


Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:03 pm
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Post Re: gentlewhisper - kamus vs GW part2 [27:25]
from ~18:45 (last 5 minutes missing) the video is messed up due to memory troubles. So, you have to see the end in kamus' video^^

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Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:05 pm
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Post Re: gentlewhisper - kamus vs GW part2 [27:25]
Black's setup was okay, I guess. Not really my type of position, but there's certainly nothing wrong with it.

17. Bxf6 looks like the first big mistake by White (improving Black's pawn structure, weakening the squares by giving up the strong bishop). In addition, I'm pretty sure that 17. Nxd6 is almost winning. 17..Qxd6 obviously loses to Be5, while 17..Rxd6 18. Be5 Rxd1 19. Bxc7 Rxf1+ 20. Rxf1 Ra8 21. Rd1 Ba6 22. Ne5 and I don't see a defence (two pawns are hanging).

Judging by the still image at the end, I'm assuming that kamus won. Congrats !

PS: Damn those recording programs !

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Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:39 pm
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Post Re: gentlewhisper - kamus vs GW part2 [27:25]
@Fox Like you, Rybka chose Nxd6 with a winning position but it also likes Bxf6 (its 2nd choice) with a clear advantage for white. Obviously Nxd6 was the best move but the real howler was 19. Nd2? where GW was probably winning at some point.


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Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:28 pm
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Post Re: gentlewhisper - kamus vs GW part2 [27:25]
Ok, I dismissed Bxf6 on general principle. If the engine likes it, that must mean that it works out tactically for White on the diagonal. Nxd6 is more simple, anyway. I think you would've played that, if you had spent more time, but you're right - it's not the mistake I thought it was.

This Bird was sort of "ideal" - winning on the dark squares, what more could White ask for ? (Meanwhile, I'm suggesting From for Black. ;> Edit: Although now I notice that that's kinda hard against a Larsen move order.)

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Last edited by Fox on Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:03 pm
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Post Re: gentlewhisper - kamus vs GW part2 [27:25]
Despite my defense of Nxf6, I actually agree with you that Bxf6 was anti-positional and also still a mistake, even if it worked out OK, given that a clearly better move was available- my thinking was getting pretty muddled at that point- my typical "muddlegame" confusion. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment. :)

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Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:22 pm
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Post Re: gentlewhisper - kamus vs GW part2 [27:25]
kamus wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment. :)

Well, thanks for making the videos and giving me the opportunity to comment and learn something. :]

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Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:32 pm
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Post Re: gentlewhisper - kamus vs GW part2 [27:25]
Thanks to both of you. I enjoyed it!

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Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:55 am
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Post Re: gentlewhisper - kamus vs GW part2 [27:25]
Ok, so anaylsis is basically what I came up with during a mostly sleepless or nightmarish night, and during my trip back
home. Of course now checking with the comp.
Thought I just post here. (Engine btw is a brutal Fritz 7 running with 32MB --- NOT! kidding)

***** after 6.Bxc6
Image

1)6...bxc6 7.Ne5 Bf5 8.Nxc6 Qc7 9.Ne5 B-pair+development but -1 pawn (engine +0.5)

2)6...Bxc6 7.Ne5
2.1) 7..Bb5 8.(d3?) keeps B-pair, Ne5 stays, B blocks Q-pawns and mght be kicked later for a tempo (engine +0.3)
2.2) 7...Rc8 if 8.Nxc6 loses B-pair but healthy structure and Ne5 gone (engine =)

I guess a problem is that bxc6 might be nice if the double c5-push (against d4) was possible. d4 wasn't played in the game though. => Idea ok, position didn't fit idea

***** 9.f4 and 14.g4 c4
I don't like these moves on principle. f4 alone is very weakening and g4 looks like suicide
after 14.g4
Image

I like that the computer doesn't dislike my 14...c4 pawn sac.Problem is that if played like in the game it leads to the
mentioned 17.Nxd6 tactic, which is simply winning for white. Computer plays it differently:

1.) 15.dxc4 and now either 14...Ne4 or 14...Ba6 so using the newly available e4 square.
Both lines are a few moves deep but engine says -0.2

Ok, sad that I misplayed it. Pawn sac for activity was a nice idea. I am positive though that I would have played the
14...Ne4 line in a long game because I would have spotted the Nxd6 stuff and Ne4 just looks like a nice in-betweener. Even during the game I was concerned about opening the d-file.
Although...probably with more time I would have played 14...Rd8 instead, preparing ...c4. I don't usually give pawns that lightly.
Even though in the game it turned out ok (as the Nxd6 stuff wasn't played) it's the first move I am not really satisfied
with. Like it but played it in a sloppy way. Typical blitz move/transformation for me.


***** 17.Bxf6
I am actually surprised that the engine finds that acceptable. Ok, probably just means it holds tactically ... lol^^
Can't be good. White will get other opportunities to weaken blacks king and then the B will be a monster.

**** until 19...Bb4 the moves are very sloppy by both, especially as black doesn't immediately get the B out of d6.
After18...Ba6:
Image

1.) 19.Qxa5 is perfectly playable. In the end it's 2 pawns for the exchange and the initiative. Probably simply winning for
white.

2.) 19.Nxd6 and black is simply a pawn down.

***** 19.Nfd2? Bb4 black is back in the game.

**** before 22....Bf8
Image

1.) instead: 22...Bxd2
Remember that I played that very quickly but I still feel it's ok. I didn't want to go into a pure major piece endgame
because I felt it didn't offer much, and I actually wanted to play the position for a win. So, thinking long term I wanted to
keep B>N on the board to have a imbalance/asymetry. (engine: =)

2.) instead 22...Rd6
As said during the game: "I wonder if I can make sth out of that pin." No time to think about it, so play sth. different and
make sure you don't leave your R potentially hanging on d6.

3.) instead 22...Bc5
Most natural move ever.

Basically, even thogh 22...Bf8 doesn't really lose, it throws blacks possible grip away. Again, I would attribute that to not
having enough time to think...sounds like using a lame excuse twice, but I am a slow thinker :P

***** before 24....Rxd1 25.Nxf6+
Image

During the game I thought 25.Nxf6+ is nothing serious. Later I thought that this might have been the losing mistake and now I see again that engine says it is "nothing serious" (although here it translates to: Maybe computer holds it^^).

It's like I thought after the game. h8 is simply the wrong square. g8 or g6 are more relevant for the King.
1st on g8 K protects B (might save a tempo) and 2nd g8 is a white square so the h8-a1 diagonal isn't that beautiful.
Black is very shaky though (+0.7 and defending)


Anyway, basically I think 2 moves are most interesting:

14...c4 interesting complications.

22...Bf8: Probably the losing move because now white gets to breathe again and starts a nice attack. White actually gives
black 1 move time to move the B back to a reasonable square as he plays 23.Re2 but instead 23...Rb4 24. Ne4 more or less seals the deal.

I think black had a nice middlegame and good endgame prospects but got lucky once (c4 variations. Idea ok, calculation not), then lost the grip on the position(Bf8, rather wtf?!), and then white managed to execute a nice attack.

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Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:43 am
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Post Re: gentlewhisper - kamus vs GW part2 [27:25]
I think what may have made 17. Bxf6 acceptable to the computer is that White can play Qh4 in many lines with a possible strong attack- perhaps enough to distract Black from his own attack temporarily anyway, but of course as Fox and you have pointed out, it was a ridiculous move on principle and even more ridiculous given that Nxd6 was available- a line that I was just too damn lazy to calculate to its conclusion.

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Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:22 am
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Post Re: gentlewhisper - kamus vs GW part2 [27:25]
Great stuff - thanks.


Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:29 pm
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