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JWhis - A Refutation for the Fried Liver Attack [20:07] 
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 JWhis - A Refutation for the Fried Liver Attack [20:07]
Poster: JWhis
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Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:48 pm
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 Re: JWhis - A Refutation for the Fried Liver Attack [20:07]
I am not familiar with the 'Berliner', I've always known it as the Ulvestadt, a man who did a lot of thorough analysis on this line. I stopped playing the double e-pawn opening as Black because people became aware that I played the Ulvestadt and would instead opt for the Italian game, or worse, the slow 4-Knights game. If they were guaranteed to play Ng5 I would still be playing this line.

I have a friend in Phoenix who also plays this line and we have studied it a lot.

If I can find some of the games I'll do a video of them, they are all played in slower time control tournaments, so there were no swindles owing to time problems. My friend from Phoenix even had an opponent who played the main line most of the way (over 20 moves) and realized that he was walking towards his own grave. The look on his face was so pitiful that he decided the grave started to look good, so rather than playing on he jumped in the box and allowed my friend to throw dirt on the coffin.

I like the idea of presenting one's own opening study here, it opens stuff up to feedback from others who play the lines you are exploring.

BTW, I found a nice Two Knights line posted on a video here at ChessTV at viewtopic.php?t=4412 It's worth a look as the crisp type of moves are available in the Ulvestadt as well, sharp play is required.

I'll see if I can find the games and post an Ulvestadt video this weekend.

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Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:12 pm
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 Re: JWhis - A Refutation for the Fried Liver Attack [20:07]
Wow, thanks for watching and posting, steve. I don't know the names of the variations, I just came across this in a game I was reviewing in my new book, and since I usually play the mainline of the 2 knights, I really liked this alternative, and set up a board for a good long while (a day) and analyzed it myself. The game that this variation came from is from a postal game, and you can read about it here: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzesz4a6/current/id13.html Incidentally, there is a quote from cvtv's own Dennis Monokroussos on that page. The move that makes it "Berliner" is the e4 move after e3.

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Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:50 pm
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 Re: JWhis - A Refutation for the Fried Liver Attack [20:07]
I thought you did a good job on this video. "Refutation" might be a bit strong though!

Matt Pullin of youtube fame did a great video on this opening too.

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Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:05 pm
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 Re: JWhis - A Refutation for the Fried Liver Attack [20:07]
JWhis wrote:
Wow, ..." ... http://mysite.verizon.net/vzesz4a6/current/id13.html Incidentally, there is a quote from cvtv's own Dennis Monokroussos on that page. The move that makes it "Berliner" is the e4 move after e3.


Thanks for the lead on the webpage, looks very interesting, too bad it's bedtime now :cry: and will have to wait until after work tomorrow to check out the variations.

In 2005 I talked to Larry Christiansen about the Ulvestadt and he is a strong supporter of the defense as well. He once did a video of it on Chess.FM, I'll have to see if I have it anymore. I know the e5e4 push was covered but I don't recall if the Berliner line (Qd1-e2-f2) was mentioned.

It's a fun defense for sharpening your tactics. I have only one caution and that is to be very careful if White carries out his suicidal plan of Nxf7 early on, there are some tricky lines there as well and Black has to be on his toes, but if he is, it's all good.

BTW, which book are you reading with this line in it?

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Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:47 pm
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 Re: JWhis - A Refutation for the Fried Liver Attack [20:07]
This book: http://www.amazon.com/Mammoth-Worlds-Gr ... 0786714115

Like I said, I am not studying the opening per se (although I will prob make myself familiar with most of the common variations) I came across it in a game in the book and thought it was interesting and did my best to figure it out which is what the video is, along with some of the mainline and general ideas.

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Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:10 am
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 Re: JWhis - A Refutation for the Fried Liver Attack [20:07]
I enjoyed the vid, as this was something that gave me a lot of trouble in the past too. If you are interested in seeing a forum members defence of the fried liver attack "live and direct" lol, waparker4 has a great video in the intermediate forum where his opponent tries to "fried liver" him and you can see how he gets out of it. I studied the video myself until I had memorized his defence and actually won a game last week using it, which was quite nice. He has quite a few videos there, but it's the waparker4 vs Konigsberg vid that goes into the fried liver defence. H.G.


Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:52 am
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 Re: JWhis - A Refutation for the Fried Liver Attack [20:07]
What chess program is this?


Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:14 pm
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 Re: JWhis - A Refutation for the Fried Liver Attack [20:07]
Hi there

Interesting video. I am a fan of this b5 too. The complications are vast. I've been cross checking with both Chessgames.com opening explorer and Rybka.

My personal conclusion is that the Ne4 line is not great. But the follow up recommended with Qh4 is okay, but not Bg4 IMHO. Bg4 is slightly unsound as white has f3. But it helps to be Rybka playing White to try and neutralise black's counterplay with total precision. Not the easiest thing to play as White.

I think the real main critical variation is the following:

{255MB, LAPTOP} 1. e4 {0} e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 b5 6. Bf1
(6. Bd3 Qxd5) 6... Nd4 7. c3 Nxd5 8. cxd4 (8. Ne4 Qh4 9. Ng3 Nc6 (9... Bg4 10.
f3 e4 11. cxd4 (11. Bxb5+ Kd8 12. cxd4) 11... Bd6 12. Qe2 (12. Bxb5+ Kd8 13.
O-O exf3 14. Qe1 fxg2 15. Rxf7 c6 16. Bxc6 Rc8 17. Nc3 Nxc3 18. dxc3 Rxc6 19.
Rxg7) 12... O-O 13. fxg4 Bxg3+ 14. Kd1 Rfe8 15. Qxb5) 10. Bxb5 Bd7) 8... Qxg5
9. Bxb5+ Kd8 10. Qf3 Bb7 11. O-O Rb8 (11... exd4 12. d3 Qe5 13. Nd2 Bd6 14. g3)
12. dxe5 Nb4 (12... Ne3 13. Qh3) (12... Nf4) 13. d4 Qg6 14. d5 Bxd5 15. Rd1
Rxb5 16. Nc3 Qc6 17. Qf5 h6 (17... g6 18. Bg5+) 18. Nxb5 (18. a3 Ra5 19. Rb1)
18... Qxb5 19. Be3 Be7 20. a3 Na6 *

and White has a crushing position. This path looks quite scary for white after Bb7 with the threat of Nf4/e3/b4 but I think it is the best path for White for advantage. Here is a key game with this variation in chessgames.com:

[Event "7th HIT Open"]
[Site "Nova Gorica SLO"]
[Date "2002.02.01"]
[EventDate "2002.01.12"]
[Round "2"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Drazen Sermek"]
[Black "G Olarasu"]
[ECO "C57"]
[WhiteElo "2595"]
[BlackElo "2293"]
[PlyCount "85"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Nd4 6. c3 b5
7. Bf1 Nxd5 8. cxd4 Qxg5 9. Bxb5+ Kd8 10. Qf3 Bb7 11. O-O Rb8
12. dxe5 Nb4 13. d4 Qg6 14. d5 Bxd5 15. Rd1 Rxb5 16. Nc3 Qc6
17. Qf5 h6 18. a3 Ra5 19. Rb1 Qe6 20. Qh5 Kc8 21. axb4 Bxb4
22. Nxd5 Rxd5 23. Rxd5 Qxd5 24. Qg4+ Qd7 25. e6 fxe6 26. Be3
Bd6 27. Ra1 e5 28. Qe4 Kd8 29. Rxa7 Ke7 30. Qg6 Rg8 31. Bxh6
Qe6 32. Bg5+ Kd7 33. Qe4 Qb3 34. g3 Qd1+ 35. Kg2 Rf8 36. Be3
Ke7 37. Bc5 Kd7 38. Bxd6 Qxd6 39. Qg4+ Ke7 40. Qxg7+ Rf7
41. Qg5+ Kd7 42. Qg4+ Ke7 43. Qe4 1-0

But I think Rybka plays with far greater precision. Instead of 18.a3 Rybka simply plays nxb5 and doesn't mess about like the above game.

Best wishes
Tryfon


Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:34 pm
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 Re: JWhis - A Refutation for the Fried Liver Attack [20:07]
Nice, I didn't know about this. Black has a lot of good options in this line for me now.


Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:34 am
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 Re: JWhis - A Refutation for the Fried Liver Attack [20:07]
Kingscrusher,

Thanks for watching my video and providing some analysis. As I mention briefly in the video, the ideas I presented are my own without any cpu assistance, so I was fairly certain there were problems there! My purpose was to reinforce my own learning by regurgitating some of my thoughts and giving other intermediate players like myself a defense that offers practical chances over the board etc. I'll definitely save that pgn, put it in my database and take a look as well. Always cool to get the thoughts of a higher level player.

Jordan

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Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:58 pm
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 Re: JWhis - A Refutation for the Fried Liver Attack [20:07]
Why don't you practice the line a few times before you post. I found all the pauses and do overs and "No wait, that's not it" very annoying.
Also, were you sick when you posted. Blow your nose, drink some water and speak slowly. Also, it would really help if you called out the
move # so we can keep track easier. I don't mean to be harsh but I hate the Fried Liver as much as anyone and I want to beat all those
smug punks out there that think 2 Knights is weak! Peace.


Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:55 pm
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 Re: JWhis - A Refutation for the Fried Liver Attack [20:07]
Yea, sorry, this video isn't very good. It was one of my first ones, and I just wanted to share a line of the 2 knights that I was learning at the time.

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Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:57 pm
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 Re: JWhis - A Refutation for the Fried Liver Attack [20:07]
Interesting video but I don't think the variations are good. In the early parts of the video you missed alot of Bxb5+ lines and as well as other things at 7:23 Qxg2?? Bf3 wins immediately as the d5 knight drops. The fried liver attack is nothing to fear as you can get destroyed in any position if you play a stupid move...


Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:13 pm
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 Re: JWhis - A Refutation for the Fried Liver Attack [20:07]
Interesting Video about the Fritz/Ulvestad variation, not about the Fried Liver!!! I mean it is good, but it's a waste of time if it's not what you're looking for!


Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:49 am
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