View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:42 am



 [ 13 posts ] 
A rather nice finish...but not for me :o 
Author Message
King

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 805
Location: England
Rating: 1840
Rating Class: Class A (1800-2000)
 A rather nice finish...but not for me :o


STEAMED! :(

Letting his knight in was terrible of course...it's 4am, that's my excuse :) I think the finish is very picturesque!


Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:51 pm
King

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 805
Location: England
Rating: 1840
Rating Class: Class A (1800-2000)
 Re: A rather nice finish...but not for me :o
Looks like I should be playing Rb8 earlier...this early Nge7 scores pretty terribly for black and I'm not suprised! I always thought this was the move but it seems not...


Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:51 pm
King

Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:48 pm
Posts: 626
Location: Germany
Rating Class: Expert (2000-2200)
 Re: A rather nice finish...but not for me :o
As a general rule: The f5 blockade against the Closed Sicilian must be maintained with ..gxf5!

_________________
- OK. I'll do a damn lot count.


Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:06 am
King

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 805
Location: England
Rating: 1840
Rating Class: Class A (1800-2000)
 Re: A rather nice finish...but not for me :o
Yeah that would make a lot more sense I guess! I originally wanted to take with the knight then I forgot I couldn't ;). I didn't want to give up the d5 square... But of course taking with a piece in the first place defeats the object of playing f5 and creating a blockade. Thanks for the advice!


Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:47 pm
King
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:10 am
Posts: 261
Location: Southern Germany
Rating: 2249
Rating Class: National Master
 Re: A rather nice finish...but not for me :o
Quote:
As a general rule: The f5 blockade against the Closed Sicilian must be maintained with ..gxf5!


This rule is definitely right.
It should be extended to positions where white has a pawn on g4 and then the general rule is to capture on f5 with the other pawn than white does (e.g. gxf5 answered by exf5).

_________________
Veni, vidi, fleri!


Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:24 pm
King

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 1442
Rating: 2200
Rating Class: National Master
 Re: A rather nice finish...but not for me :o
And playing f5 at all, is not some kind of law. Neither are automatic captures.


Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:01 pm
King

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 805
Location: England
Rating: 1840
Rating Class: Class A (1800-2000)
 Re: A rather nice finish...but not for me :o
Pobble wrote:
And playing f5 at all, is not some kind of law. Neither are automatic captures.


Yes, f5 is pretty risky if you misjudge the timing. I won't deny this was a truly awful game on my part :)

Definitely learned something with this pawn recapture idea though...so it was worth posting I guess :D


Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:45 pm
King

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 1442
Rating: 2200
Rating Class: National Master
 Re: A rather nice finish...but not for me :o
My point was you did not need to play it at all. White's pieces are too passive. Just play in the centre.


Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:20 am
King

Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:48 pm
Posts: 626
Location: Germany
Rating Class: Expert (2000-2200)
 Re: A rather nice finish...but not for me :o
He doesn't need to play ..f5. But since it's an excellent move, he might as well.

_________________
- OK. I'll do a damn lot count.


Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:05 am
King

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 805
Location: England
Rating: 1840
Rating Class: Class A (1800-2000)
 Re: A rather nice finish...but not for me :o
Pobble wrote:
My point was you did not need to play it at all. White's pieces are too passive. Just play in the centre.


You think d5 was better? I thought f5 really looked like the right plan here-. After all, with a pawn on g6 and e6, knight on e7, the whole idea of playing this setup against the closed sicilian is to blockade with f5 I thought. That's what I understood from some of Danny King's DVDs anyway. Of course no system can be played 100% of the time, but here it really looked like the right move...I just didn't know how to follow it up properly right? Isn't it possible to blocked and then play b5 and d5, stopping the KS attack before engaging in other activities?


Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:37 am
King

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 1442
Rating: 2200
Rating Class: National Master
 Re: A rather nice finish...but not for me :o
This blockade idea is as old as the hills. You can go through thousands of games where it is employed. But think, what is it;s purpose? Did white play well up to this point? The plan for white with the early dark square bishop exchange is to 0-0-0 and mate you, which he failed to do. The break f5 for white is supposed to open the flood gates for his pieces which have gathered behind it, rather like a coiled spring. Such play by white takes preperation. Double rooks on the f-line, h3/g4, Nh4, Q ready, and a stable enough centre. All this irksome prep white has failed to do. So is f4-f5 dangerous? Another very important difference with regards to the normal same side castling is the bishops have already been exchanged, which makes squares like d4,e5,f4,g5 extra meaningful.

Play b4,d5,Ne5 in answer to f4-f5 and say thankyou to your painting by numbers opponent. Due to the early bishop exchange, your f-pawn humbly moving only one square forward sometime is hardly unknown in GM chess.

The confusion stems from examples. Danny is giving examples, but can hardly cover everything.

This topic is very confusing even for strong players, so don't feel bad.

I will just add. chess has changed a lot over just the last 10 years, and a lot of standard wisdom has gone the way of the Dodo. Go through modern games and it is shocking to see the elite trash accepted ' wisdom '.

Think like this -
He might play f4-f5. Ok, I know f4-f5 is thematic in this position type. So what are the pro's and con's.
Is he ready?
He gives away the e5 square, a dark square.
He weakens his own king and plenty more dark squares like f4,g3 etc.
Is he going to mate me with a Ne2? He has nothing passed his second rank. I can even push him further back with b5-b4.
Does f4-f5 help or hinder my plan?
I should always ask myself what I can do ' NOW ', and not be forced to follow my opponents tune unless forced to.
So what do I have?


Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:20 am
King

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 805
Location: England
Rating: 1840
Rating Class: Class A (1800-2000)
 Re: A rather nice finish...but not for me :o
Thanks a lot for the detailed advice :) I guess during this game my fear of an attack got the better of me, but now I look at it I see you're completely right...f5 was an over reaction, probably based on having been wiped out so many times in the closed Sicilian :D But of course, playing in Sicilian style and going for b4 followed by centre is a much more logical and meaningful approach. It's so simple to say 'play on the side you're strongest' but it's not always easy advice to follow :D

I know this game is Closed Sicilian rather than Grand Prix attack, but did you see Andrew Martin's 'refutation' of the Grand Prix with bishop c4? I'm curious to know your thoughts on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFuErC9D ... re=g-all-u


Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:51 pm
King

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 1442
Rating: 2200
Rating Class: National Master
 Re: A rather nice finish...but not for me :o
That is a lot to remember in a line you might get once in your life. Regarding opening lines which are based on tight rope computer analysis, they are good at giving position +- = -+ but very bad at telling you how hard to play. Did you feel any pressure? Where the moves easy to find for a human, even when winning? Such players like Gelfand, can expect a line and prepare for each specific game, which is a huge advantage regarding openings. Gelfand knows he is playing white against Aronian months before the game, and can pretty much predict one or two lines with a high degree of success. You see? Judgement and skill go out the window, and memory becomes king as things are getting very very specific regarding exact moves.

The line is no doubt good for black but computers are not perfect. Even in very sharp positions the top programs can all offer different moves. I do not fully trust comps in gambit positions anyway. Read the following article.
http://www.vitruviuschess.com/article/T ... uvius.html

Just saying, maybe refuted for black in 5 years? Many people will say I'm wrong and that comps must be perfect, but funny enough the same people will be first to buy Houdine 3 or whatever, which is weird to me.


Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:05 pm
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
   [ 13 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF