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curtains - L235: W vs Zil [IM] [25:07] 
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 Re: curtains - L235: W vs Zil [IM] [25:07]
Theriot wrote:
I have a question. How well are the openings you play after 1. e4 e5 working for you now?


My normal opening was 3.Bc4. I know that pretty well, just want to find something else that I like too.


Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:07 pm
Pawn

Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:16 am
Posts: 5
 Re: curtains - L235: W vs Zil [IM] [25:07]
Take a look at
e4,e5
f4,exf
nf3,g5
Lc4,g4
0-0....

and it does not score that bad.
If somebody knows the refutation, the show it to me.
I mean the scandinavian isn't played at higher level very often too, but Tiviakov plays it with success.
I think they do not play the Kings Gambit that often because it is really very dangerous.

PLEASE CURTAINS TRY AT LEAST ONCE THE LINE I METIONED ON THE TOP
P.S. Short played the Kings Gambit in his match against Karjakin and he got rewarded for that with a win.
Karjakin was even afraid of accepting the pawn.
The lines with h4 after g5 do not look very nice for white. Well but if one likes it

I looked in my database through all games with white players who have a rating higher than 2500 and there white only won 47% but 34% are draws and Black won ONLY 18%

In the Ruy Lopez with white players better than 2500 white scores only 39% draws 48% and black won 12%
I mean that very body knows that the ruy lopez is better than the Kings Gambit but it just shows, that these stats aren't that important and they shouldn't affect you decisions too much and hey if you do not play the wrong lines then the Kings Gambit doesn't look that crappy ;)


Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:23 am
King

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:20 am
Posts: 379
Rating Class: Expert (2000-2200)
 Re: curtains - L235: W vs Zil [IM] [25:07]
People, stop mentioning these stupid ridiculous openings and gambit, they're crap. This IM knows what he is doing.
It's pretty funny to see some anonymous chess players give opening advice to a titled player.


Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:21 am
Pawn

Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:16 am
Posts: 5
 Re: curtains - L235: W vs Zil [IM] [25:07]
@Hiddie
show a line where black gets an advantage!
An IM or GM is a person who plays very good and who understands positions very fast(during a game for example^^), but that does not mean, that every body else is stupid and has no idea how to analyse an opening with an engine.


Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:09 am
Rook

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:38 pm
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Rating Class: Class B (1600-1800)
 Re: curtains - L235: W vs Zil [IM] [25:07]
Why not just perfect your c4 stuff? Seems like it was effective at getting you playable positions.


Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:26 am
King

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:20 am
Posts: 379
Rating Class: Expert (2000-2200)
 Re: curtains - L235: W vs Zil [IM] [25:07]
@pawn
You're putting words in my mouth dude. First of all, I never said I was talking about you. And I never said that I was talking about one of the openings you were talking about So why the hell would I have to show a line where black gets an advantage? that's bullcrap.
I'm not saying that everybody except IM's or GM's are stupid.
The fact that you analyze openings with engines shows that you have little understanding of chess.

It suicidal to play Ponziani on master level. I mean, the only time when I saw a good grandmaster use it was when Nigel Short used it as a surprise weapon. There is a reason for the opening not being played besides that it's not popular.

I have played the ponziani for a long time so I know what I'm talking about.

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. c3 d5
4. Qa4

And the position is completely equal.

Statistics don't really say that much.
And you don't analyzes openings with engines.

If you want to discuss these openings we can do it another time in another topic and I know I will win. But I don't want to continue about this in a topic for a live commentary by Curtains.


Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:30 am
Probation

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:49 pm
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 Re: curtains - L235: W vs Zil [IM] [25:07]
White always looks for an opening advantage ...as does black but white getting an edge is expected in high level play.

The Kings Gambit limits that, thus is a super crap opening.

AMEN

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Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:24 am
King

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:20 am
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 Re: curtains - L235: W vs Zil [IM] [25:07]
Tacto wrote:
White always looks for an opening advantage ...as does black but white getting an edge is expected in high level play.

The Kings Gambit limits that, thus is a super crap opening.

AMEN


Amen.


Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:01 am
King

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 Re: curtains - L235: W vs Zil [IM] [25:07]
Guys, let's not make this a playchess.com-thread.

The point is, pawn, the Kingsgambit scores very well, because it's highly effective in clublevel play. If black isn't a good player, he might very well get obliterated. The point is, if you'd actually look at games of Curtains' level, so filter out everyone below 2400 with black, then the Kings-gambit doesn't give any advantage to white. I just did it with chessbase 9 and the result is 49% over almost 500 games. Sure, it's not as bad as the Latvian gambit, but it's not exactly solid for white. Moreover, there are almost no gambits at master level, that should say something.

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Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:55 am
King

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:20 am
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 Re: curtains - L235: W vs Zil [IM] [25:07]
RAU4ever wrote:
Guys, let's not make this a playchess.com-thread.

The point is, pawn, the Kingsgambit scores very well, because it's highly effective in clublevel play. If black isn't a good player, he might very well get obliterated. The point is, if you'd actually look at games of Curtains' level, so filter out everyone below 2400 with black, then the Kings-gambit doesn't give any advantage to white. I just did it with chessbase 9 and the result is 49% over almost 500 games. Sure, it's not as bad as the Latvian gambit, but it's not exactly solid for white. Moreover, there are almost no gambits at master level, that should say something.


Queen's gambit, Slav gambit, Marshall attack (It's a gambit to) and maybe the Budapest gambit. Those are the only four gambits I can really think of that are still played in top level chess. The Queen's gambit shouldn't even be considered a gambit because black can never keep the pawn. I agree with you completely btw.


Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:20 am
Pawn

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:55 pm
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Rating Class: Novice (<1200)
 Re: curtains - L235: W vs Zil [IM] [25:07]
[quote="curtains"]DO YOU ALL REALIZE THESE STUPID OPENINGS DON'T WORK VERY WELL AGAINST GOOD PLAYERS (GM'S, IM'S ETC).[/quote]

strangely enough i have a pretty decent score against titled players with the Vienna

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Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:39 pm
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 Re: curtains - L235: W vs Zil [IM] [25:07]
titled players? I don't care about them Im talking about GRANDMASTERS


Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:02 pm
King

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:20 am
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 Re: curtains - L235: W vs Zil [IM] [25:07]
curtains wrote:
titled players? I don't care about them Im talking about GRANDMASTERS


Why? you're not a grandmaster yourself, and you play FM's and IM's more often than GM's.


Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:03 am
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 Re: curtains - L235: W vs Zil [IM] [25:07]
If you want to get to the next level your openings have to be good enough to compete against those stronger than you. It';s silly to focus your repretoire only on how to beat those weaker or even to you.


Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:50 am
Pawn

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:55 pm
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Rating Class: Novice (<1200)
 Re: curtains - L235: W vs Zil [IM] [25:07]
curtains wrote:
If you want to get to the next level your openings have to be good enough to compete against those stronger than you. It';s silly to focus your repretoire only on how to beat those weaker or even to you.


So, would you say that the vienna could be a viable opening against FMs and IMs, but not against GMs?
I think have three (4?) games against GMs with it, I lost them obviously(lol), but I'm no GM and that's no sample size to speak of either.
Also, could it be that I just know a ridiculous ammount about that opening (been playing that basically since i started playing chess), and I could've had the same results with any other offbeat opening?

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Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:51 pm
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