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curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16] 
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 curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
Poster: curtains
Name: International Master Gregory Shahade
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Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:59 pm
Knight

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 Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
I just wanted to hear you talk about your thoughts, cause it's freakin' hilarious. I've weaponed illegal downloading (you need to watch this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXR4T8xVFdw), but
in fact I'm embarrassed to admit that I am currently posting on my neighbor's wifi, because my internet is down for some reason. But as long as I convince myself I will one day be a better person, I never have to be today. ;) I appreciate that you're not full of shit. Respect.


Last edited by d-man on Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:22 pm
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 Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
btw I do distinguish between downloading a song here and there, and downloading a product which in it's entirety probably cost like 400-500 dollars. I feel like my actions resemble stealing a bit more, but it's hard to justify that. I suppose the point is that most music is freely available at many sources, whereas the only real way to get this program was to download it. They don't have it at my library and there is really no other source out there where I could get it.


Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:27 pm
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 Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
... raping kids... torture... lol dude, that was A L O T of talking... lol....

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Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:03 am
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 Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
TheSalesman wrote:
... raping kids... torture... lol dude, that was A L O T of talking... lol....

apparently you missed this one : viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3195


Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:35 am
Pawn

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 Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
Is it bad to illegally download music, movies and software ? Yes.
Why do we do it. Because we are selfish.
Should we try to do better ? Yes.

But I think that paying for music, movies and software is the last place to start.
Just as an example, if you illegally download $1000 worth of something and donate $10 to children starving in some third world country you're (in my opinion) better than someone that doesn't donate but pays for every single song he's ever listened to.

It shouldn't surprise us that we are selfish. Just step outside and see all the people driving their SUVs while some children in the world are made to work 16 hour days. To me, being selfish is a fact of life. The only question is if you strive to be better everyday. Of course, not everybody can dedicate their life to the prosperity of the human race (or something noble like that).
I think the worse thing you can do is rationalize about it. Because then (not only are you full of shit) you are also giving yourself a way out; which means you will not strive to be better. BTW, it might seem as though Greg is also letting himself off the hook (I steal, I know it's bad, but I don't give a damn). However, I don't think this is the case. What he said in the video is already proof that he does give a damn.
Anyway I think rationalization is the real evil. But even saying that is not so simple. After all, it's very hard to distinguish between someone who is rationalizing and someone who truly in their hearts believe what they are doing is best.
For example, some people think that downloading music illegally is morally justifiable.
Their rational goes as follows:
The singers get too small a cut of the pie, and the record companies get %99 of the money.
The singers would like to give their music away for free (making it popular) and make money only from live performances;
but, the record companies have all the control.

Now, I'm not saying that the above is true or good. But I don't think I can say with great confidence that anyone who says so is full of shit. Maybe he truly believes this and thus wants no part in it. Maybe he thinks he's doing the world good by not giving any more money to the record companies.
Whatever, bottom line is, it's very hard to judge anyone on these moral issues.

To end my comment on a lighter note, Greg...
Think about all the hours of enjoyment you give to all your viewers at CV.TV.
You are a very good person :)


Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:04 am
Knight

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 Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
I AM COMING FOR YOU SPOONTHIEF


Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:06 am
King

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 Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
Come to Holland, the only country where downloading TV-Shows and music for free is legal :D


Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:08 am
King

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 Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
i wrote 7 paragraphs about this subject and then deleted it because i just dont want to talk about it because its very hard for me to explain it to a large amount of people i would gladly talk to one person about this but it thought of the reactions that so many different kinds of people all with there own opinions to share and there ways of living and i decided that the with the amount of talking that i would do about this topic josh would have no choice but to ban me. also greg im sure this thread is gonna lite up like wildfire have fun because basically youve just opened pandoras box also i know its all one run on sentence if you dont like it to bad i know its wrong but i dont care.

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Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:02 am
Knight

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 Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
Do you rathole Greg? While I'm not especially opposed to shortstackers, ratholing is certainly not "100% undisputably fine" or however you phrased it, although it's probably mostly fine. I'm just saying that it's a grey area (as opposed to just shortstacking, which I agree is a non-issue), as some sites have modified their T&C and software to prevent it etc. I'm pointing it out because I imagine most people here probably aren't familiar with online poker beyond what you tell them.

Nice game. The speech was a bit over the top, maybe save the 12 minute ones for after the games in the future :)


Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:10 am
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 Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
wolf wrote:
For example, some people think that downloading music illegally is morally justifiable.
Their rational goes as follows:
The singers get too small a cut of the pie, and the record companies get %99 of the money.
The singers would like to give their music away for free (making it popular) and make money only from live performances;
but, the record companies have all the control.


If you really care about the artist you should buy merchandise, because the artist usually gets all the money. In my opinion it's ok to download music if you find a way to get some money to the artist directly. Just downloading music without at least trying to compensate or reward the artist is just lazy. Of course that doesn't mean "buy a t-shirt for every cd", more like go to concerts, buy mechandise, talk about the bands with your friends.


Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:17 am
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 Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
It is the law. But the laws are not in our heads. They are rules some other people made. And there are a lot of laws people do not agree with. We are animals, we do not care about some stupid law.


Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:12 am
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 Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
I don't care so much about the law. I don't give a crap if you smoke marijuana or whatever and I don't think there's anything morally wrong with it. However when someone creates something, and puts a price tag on that product, it's definitely at least slightly sleazy to just take it without paying that price tag in a community where the entire idea of said community is to share things for free without rewarding the author.

Now I know there are libraries and other sanctioned environments where such where similar things go on, I'm not sure exactly how to quantify the difference, but I believe there definitely is a difference. As I said, no one would ever think badly about someone if you simply lend books, music or software to friends. This is completely standard and happens all the time. So why is this different exactly? I know that it is, but it's soooo easy to pretend that it isn't.


Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:32 am
King
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 Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
I think it comes down to the Copyright laws.

From wikipedia.com

For what it's worth.....

Quote:
They can claim that the making of files available for sharing on a P2P network infringes on their right under 17 USC 106(3) "to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending.


I am guessing that libraries, in most cases, have some sort of special permission. The argument usually stems from the specific nuances of the file sharing networks/transfers, and the interpretation of the Copyright laws.

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Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:51 am
King
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 Re: curtains - L258: B vs Botvitrosian [GM] [28:16]
making and distributing copies is clearly different than loaning an original.

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Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:05 am
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